re: Trump: "Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle."

Explain please.

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That interpretation is wrong. The sun of righteousness with the moon at her feet, with the 12 stars of Israel who gives birth to a son who defeats the dragon Leviathan (Yahweh is also said to have defeated the dragon leviathan in many other books of the Bible) is obviously Asherah, the mother of Yahweh and wife of El.

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the interpretation of Christian theologians for centuries based on reading Revelation within its biblical context is wrong because...? It doesn't fit the narrative that you want? OK.

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Sometimes the simplest reading is the correct reading.

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You continually fail to take the simplest reading or the reading that best fits the grammatical/historical context of the Bible in order to force an anti-biblical, pagan perspective into the text and you're saying that the simplest reading is the correct one? Do you even understand that the style of Revelation as apocalyptic literature doesn't even have a "simple" reading to it? It's not written like one of Paul's letters or even a gospel narrative account.

I think what you mean is that you think the imagery used best fits Asherah in your mind, and therefore that must be the simplest interpretation, even though that would fly in the face of the context and the teachings of the biblical writers as a whole.

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The Israelites were Canaanites. The Israelites - some or many - did worship Asherah and that’s exactly what the Bible says. The archeological evidence in Israel and Egypt of their worship of Asherah cannot be denied (at least not honestly). Asherah was as much a Canaanite deity as she was an Israelite deity.

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Another weird take. The Bible does say that many Israelites worshipped Baal, Asherah, and other gods. It's precisely why God judged them over and over again, culminating with exile from the land. However, those gods were not the gods of Israel. Yahweh is the God of Israel. Asherah, Baal, and the other gods like Dagon of the Philistines were adopted by many in Israel but they were not native to the people of Israel. Simply saying that Israel was in Canaan and some Israelites committed idolatry with Canaanite gods doesn't mean that those gods were equally gods of Israel as they were of the other tribes of Canaan.

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Worship of Asherah wasn’t condemned by God (he doesn’t exist) but was condemned by scribes of the Persian period in Jersusalem.

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They were condemned by God. You are the one assuming the Bible isn't the word of God and then picking and choosing which texts of the Bible you want to claim are authentic (ironically, just the ones that are most easily twisted to fit your false narrative).

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So what scriptures are you going to follow, Foolanecraig? The scriptures written by Jewish scribes beholden to the Persians who were their overlords and who funded the building of the temple? Or are you going to believe “Jesus” when he says the temple priests in Jersusalem were corrupt and did not know the scriptures? The very group of priests and scribes that the gospel version of Jesus labeled corrupt are the ones that attempted to write Asherah out of existence or turn her into an inanimate object and false god.

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I believe the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments. You are the one rejecting what is clearly taught in the Bible, saying that only those texts that fit your perverted ideas are worth considering and rejecting everything else as a forgery or myth.

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You can’t be stupid enough to believe the John who wrote the Apocalypse also wrote 1 John or 2 John or the gospel according to John. No way. Never mind. Use your brain for once.

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Oh, you're right. I can't believe that because it wouldn't fit what you want me to believe. I don't want to be stupid by believing something that Christians believed for nearly 2,000 years when an enemy of Christ--who is actively trying to destroy the faith of Christians--decides to push conspiracy theories that ignore the text and context of the writings. I don't want to be stupid so I must believe what you say, even though your lies have been disproven time and time again. I should join with you!

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John of Patmos like most early Jewish Christians, the Essenes of Dead Sea Scrolls fame, and the first temple cult before Babylonian conquest worshipped the divine mother. Worship of her was not dead for 500 years. You are reading one-sided writings written only by the people who wanted to erase Asherah.

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We've got historical documentation for Christianity going back to the 1st century. Show me this "divine mother" worship that you claim that Christians--not Gnostics--were doing from the beginning.

And yes, after the return from exile, the Israelites finally got the message and destroyed idols and stamped out idolatry while embracing the temple worship of Yahweh, especially after the Roman conquest. They wanted to maintain their identity as Jews worshipping Yahweh. There is no evidence that John worshipped Asherah or any other false god. He specifically wrote in Revelation that idolatry would be judged within the context of the monotheistic belief in the trinitarian God. You're just providing wishful thinking without evidence and superimposing your false ideas on to John where you find convenient.

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What I find hilarious is that you don’t have enough sense to see that what you wrote perfectly describes the first Christians who cherry-picked the Jewish Bible and reinterpreted it in light of Jesus. Those earliest Christians turned peshers from the Enochian/Essene community into Christianity.

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More conjecture on your part. I'm sorry that you have such a hatred for Jesus Christ that you have to come up with a completely fictitious myth in order to justify your rejection of the historical reality of Jesus Christ and His life, death, resurrection, and ascension as the Son of God. He is your Lord whether you want to acknowledge it or not. One day all knees will bow to Him. Some will do so willingly while others--possibly yours if you don't repent--will do so by force before you are thrown into the fires of Hell forever.

Repent before it is too late. Repent of your rejection of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and put your trust in Him to pay the debt that your sins deserve.

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James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.


Your theology is infantile and lacking. I wonder if you've ever asked another person to pray for you.

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Praying for someone and praying to someone are different things altogether. Prayer is an act of worship meant only for the one, living God. He is the object of our prayers.

When we pray for someone, we go to God through Jesus Christ by the Spirit on behalf of the person we are praying for. We do not go to Mary, Michael, Paul, Peter, Theresa, or Baal to get to God, but only Jesus Christ our mediator.

Bringing out the big guns

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If you knew that 2/3 of people were living in a false reality, would you try to help them see actual reality for what it is?

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That's what Christian evangelism is all about.

Such actions make sense within the Christian worldview. We believe that there is an afterlife where all people will be held accountable for their lives in how they related to their creator, either as enemies of Him or as His friends through Jesus Christ. Christians don't want to see people suffer in Hell for eternity so evangelism is a good thing.

What good does "evangelism" do in your worldview? You're an atheist who doesn't acknowledge objective truth--especially objective moral truth--and who believes that this life is all there is.

So what is the point of such "evangelism"? Isn't it ultimately "vanity", as the Bible calls the foolishness of this world? If you manage to convince every single person that all that exists is an a-moral reality with no ultimate purpose, and that people are just biological accidents that evolved from simple organisms and who live for a few years and die, then what have you gained?

If there is no ultimate truth and no ultimate value in anything, then that means there is no real "good" in anything, including in knowledge. Who cares if someone lives their lives believing something you don't? This world, according to you, is just one big struggle of survival where the person or group of persons with the biggest stick get to rule for a while anyway, and then nothingness in death.

What's irrational is believing as you do and then spending so much time trying to convince people to join you in your quest for meaningless, purposeless vanity. You don't even agree there is absolute truth but you are very concerned that people absolutely believe that is the truth.

If what you believe is actually true (it isn't), then it is entirely irrational to act as you act.

It's a prayer to God to send his right hand man Michael to come help us out.

God will hear his prayer and proclaim "Yo! MIKE! Go take out the trash!"

Then shite gets real.

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Nah, they are just doing something that is as ineffectual as asking Baal for intercession.

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But, Foo, if a Catholic prays to Mary and asks for her prayers, doesn't that make Jesus Christ a bit miffed? I mean, he must sit there with His arms folded and say, "Why is this guy praying to my Mother? Harumph. I might be very well inclined to ignore those prayers. That guy might as well pray to Baal. And, Mom, don't give me that look."

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When Catholics pray for intercession from Mary or St Michael, they are actually praying to Baal

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A lot of people (myself included) is praying for missus peej.

He asked us for prayers on her behalf.

Your take is lame and incorrect.

Patron Saint of all Paratroopers.

We know St Mike well.

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the interpretation of Christian theologians for centuries based on reading Revelation within its biblical context is wrong because...? It doesn't fit the narrative that you want? OK.

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Let’s reject modern knowledge in favor of the Christian theological interpretation for centuries! Let’s go back to the earth being the flat disk center of the universe with the sun traversing the firmament holding back the waters of heaven! Because those ancient theologians know the truth!

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I think what you mean is that you think the imagery used best fits Asherah in your mind, and therefore that must be the simplest interpretation, even though that would fly in the face of the context and the teachings of the biblical writers as a whole.

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So the dragon is literally a dragon. But the woman giving birth to the male child was not literally a woman and a male child. You are certifiably retarded.

You apply allegory where none is meant, like in revelation 12, and you apply literalism where allegory is meant, like Genesis 2-3.

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The Bible does say that many Israelites worshipped Baal, Asherah, and other gods

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Hey we agree on something! It’s really you just finally admitting what the Bible says, but it’s a start!

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However, those gods were not the gods of Israel.

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Uh oh, you turned stupid again. The main original god of Israel was El Elyon, and you forget Nehushtan the snake god and others.

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Yahweh is the God of Israel.

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As recorded by the chief scribes and priests in Jerusalem wanting to centralize power and money in Jerusalem. You eat up their revisionist history! Lapping up the lies of the scribes like a dog drinking water out of a hose. Jeremiah even mentions the lying pen of the scribes making their scriptures into lies. You ignore Jeremiah and Jesus and accept wholeheartedly the revised scriptures of the Hellenistic second temple priests!

“Quit worshiping El god most high at Beth El! Quit worshipping Shemesh the sun god at Beth Shemesh! Quit worshipping Lahmu the fertility god at Beth Lehem!”

The Israelites were Canaanites. This is confirmed in the archaeological record. Genetic evidence of modern peoples and genetic evidence of the peoples from 1200BCE to 500BCE confirms the Israelites are Canaanites. The only major group there that differed genetically were the Peleset / Philistines who were Mycenaean Greeks. The Israelites smoke a west Semitic language which was mutually intelligible with the other Canaanite languages such as Ammoniye, Phoenician, Edomite, Moabites, and to some extent Ugaritic.

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I should join with you!

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. I agree you should. And quit trying to say you ever disproved me of anything. :lol:

Think about it. You believe an uneducated fisherman who couldn’t read or write the language he spoke (if he even existed) grew up and learned Greek and learned to write enough to write Revelation in some terrible Greek, and then I guess went back to college and learned to write as good as Homer to write his gospel? And he must’ve lived for 150 years because 1 John and 2 John were written in the mid second century to whine and complain about Marcion and Gnostic heresies. That’s ridiculous. But that’s what you need. You need to believe ridiculous bullshite :lol: because you can’t stand reality.

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Show me this "divine mother" worship that you claim that Christians--not Gnostics--were doing from the beginning.

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I don’t know if I have a good answer for you. The divine mother morphed into the Holy Spirit as a code word because they weren’t supposed to be worshipping her anymore according to the temple priests. We do know with certainty the first temple period was heavy on Asherah worship, as you admitted already. In the Persian/Hellenistic period, Jews weren’t allowed to have kings or worship asherah in Jersusalem. “Jesus” called these second temple priests corrupt and accused them of not knowing the (correct) scriptures. You will ignore that. Consider the bible says Solomon was the wisest man to ever live or will ever live, and he worshipped Asherah and had her in the temple. Remembering their messiahs of David and Solomon, the early Christians longed for the day when they could reject the second temple corrupted priests and restore the divine kingship of the messiah and reject the line of aaronic/Zadokite Levitical priests for a return to the Melchizedek priesthood. I know you know this but you can’t process it. Try to process it.

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And yes, after the return from exile, the Israelites finally got the message and destroyed idols and stamped out idolatry while embracing the temple worship of Yahweh, especially after the Roman conquest.

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That’s what the text of the Bible mostly says, but is that really what happened? Do you believe in the official reports by the government of what happened at Pearl Harbor and 9/11 and Covid-19? Certainly there’s no way Covid was made in a Chinese lab and funded by the NIH through Eco Health Alliance because the official documents of what happened don’t mention that right? Try to be less gullible and more open minded and inquisitive.

Do you realize there were many groups outside of Jerusalem that just went about their business and carried on the first temple religion even while the second temple Persian/hellenistic-influenced religion flourished in Jerusalem? Not all Jews quit worshipping Asherah.

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He specifically wrote in Revelation that idolatry would be judged within the context of the monotheistic belief in the trinitarian God

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Why you want to play like that? You know and I know and you know I know that that shite ain’t in there. Stop it.

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Some will do so willingly while others--possibly yours if you don't repent--will do so by force before you are thrown into the fires of Hell forever.

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I’ve been asked before “if you knew Christianity were true would you worship Jesus”. It’s a moot point, but I am certainly glad there is no truth in it. I would hate to think about a divine entity creating billions of people doomed to be tortured forever. If that kind of deity can build a torturous system like that, I’d hate to see what his heaven is like. He might be like P Diddy and you’d be his Justin Bieber… forever! That would suck, figuratively and literally!