Started By
Message

re: Trump appoints leading vaccine skeptic as head of vaccine safety panel

Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:06 pm to
Posted by Zephyrius
Wharton, La.
Member since Dec 2004
9574 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:06 pm to
quote:

Have you asked the Chinese about their numbers?

I have no idea... have you? It's just a question... Is diagnosis limited to the "West"?

You either made or agreed with the point.
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
76503 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:06 pm to
God forbid we have skeptics in DC.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138978 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:16 pm to
quote:

That is not what I'm saying at all.
It is. You may not realize it is. But that is exactly what you are saying.

Factually, the incidence appears to have increased. Meanwhile, the incidence of diagnosis has exploded.
Posted by LSUTANGERINE
Baton Rouge and Northshore LA
Member since Sep 2006
38468 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:17 pm to
quote:

It is. You may not realize it is. But that is exactly what you are saying. Factually, the incidence appears to have increased. Meanwhile, the incidence of diagnosis has exploded.

No it's not what I am saying. I know what I am saying. You either are not understanding or misinterpreting. Of course the incidence has increased. That is because it is being diagnosed more. And I've given the reasons that it is being diagnosed more today than it was decades ago.
This post was edited on 1/10/17 at 6:19 pm
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95648 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:18 pm to
Skepticism is a good thing, even for something as generally valuable as vaccinations are.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
39872 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:19 pm to
quote:

Skepticism is a good thing, even for something as generally valuable as vaccinations are.
Right. Informed, value-add skepticism. Not wild-eyed nonsense from those impervious to facts and/or the concept of cost/benefit analyses.
Posted by LSUTANGERINE
Baton Rouge and Northshore LA
Member since Sep 2006
38468 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:20 pm to
And I bet many of the same people here supporting this guy's views on vaccinations are the same ones that call Jenny McCarthy crazy because of her beliefs. But MAGA!
This post was edited on 1/10/17 at 6:27 pm
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
76503 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:23 pm to

I'm not anti vaccine. Nor am I pro pharma. I am pro the head of a committee being a skeptic about everything. It makes for a good committee on anything.

Curse you downvoters
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95648 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:26 pm to
quote:

Not wild-eyed nonsense from those impervious to facts and/or the concept of cost/benefit analyses.


Well, we don't need blind acceptance of government massaged facts, either.

quote:

Informed, value-add skepticism.


We're not in significant disagreement.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35381 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:29 pm to
quote:

Well, we don't need blind acceptance of government massaged facts, either.
You're right, but at least in the case of Autism and vaccines, the "massaged" facts were from the ONE study--with a sample size of like a dozen--of a hack researcher.

It's crazy how much one poor and unethical study could cause such a response.
This post was edited on 1/10/17 at 6:31 pm
Posted by LSUTANGERINE
Baton Rouge and Northshore LA
Member since Sep 2006
38468 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

quote: Well, we don't need blind acceptance of government massaged facts, either. You're right, but at least in the case of Autism and vaccines, the "massaged" facts were from the ONE study--with a sample size of like a dozen--of a hack researcher. It's crazy how much one poor and unethical study could cause such a response.

And he was found to have falsified his data
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95648 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:36 pm to
quote:

You're right, but at least in the case of Autism and vaccines, the "massaged" facts were from the ONE study--with a sample size of like a dozen--of a hack researcher.


It's clearly a case of autism being a newly defined disorder. Correlation not causation.

I have specific concerns about Thimerosal - as I am allergic to it. Combine that with the mercury content (organic or no, still mercury) and I wish we could do without it altogether. It is, after all, only a preservative.

But, there is little doubt in my mind that the modern vaccination program in developed countries has saved hundreds of thousands at this point (millions, maybe?) and even more in avoided suffering. The risk analysis, for me, makes it a very good cost/benefit value.

Now - are we flooding young, undeveloped human beings with all sorts of chemical concoctions in a short period of time with little rhyme or reason beyond, "Hey - this is a good idea" as far as adding a particular vax to the regimen? Maybe. And that is why we should remain skeptical and thoughtful about what and to whom we're doing these things.

When you stop improving, you start getting worse right that second.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
39872 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:36 pm to
quote:

Well, we don't need blind acceptance of government massaged facts, either.
Right. Of course that's a bit of a non-sequitur because that's not what we have here.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35381 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:39 pm to
quote:

It's clearly a case of autism being a newly defined disorder. Correlation not causation.
But there is even an established correlation.
quote:

And that is why we should remain skeptical and thoughtful about what and to whom we're doing these things.
Of course, but concerns and skepticism =/= latching onto conjecture about autism and vaccines.
Posted by ThinePreparedAni
In a sea of cognitive dissonance
Member since Mar 2013
11315 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:41 pm to
quote:

All of my kids are vaccinated.

That said, I don't like the way vaccine skepticism is treated.
I get why people are unsure about giving babies all of these shots and think it's dehumanizing the way people respond to anti-vaccination parents.

A stern response to what you perceive to be a public health threat (if you are qualified and informed to make that judgment) is fine, but I believe the response is usually overboard and does more to entrench the feelings of distrust in the skeptic than to change their mind.



quote:

If you feel so strongly about it, then do your part to convince them.

Unless you actually want to burn them at the stake instead of just figuratively doing so.

Again, the vitriol of the response reduces its effectiveness.




Agree with you.

Complicating this issue:

The etiology of autism is poorly understood
The human immune system/response is immensely complex
I do not think that vaccines in and of themselves are nefarious /detrimental. They have done immense good for populations as whole. My concern is the alteration of the immune system when combined with other, multifactorial contributions on an individual basis.

Some factors being considered/contributing:

Vit D deficiency (as it relates to broad recommendations to avoid sun exposure and use sun block). Correlation with increased incidence at higher latitudes....
Overall nutrient poor (standard American) diet which skews the ratio of omega 6/omega 3 fatty acids

LINK

quote:

Vitamin D hormone regulates serotonin synthesis. Part 1: relevance for autism
Rhonda P. Patrick1 and Bruce N. Ames1
+ Author Affiliations

Nutrition and Metabolism Center, Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute, Oakland, California, USA
?1Correspondence: Nutrition and Metabolism Center, Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute, 5700 Martin Luther King Jr. Way, Oakland, CA 94609, USA. E-mail: R.P.P., rpatrick@chori.org; B.N.A., bames@chori.org
Abstract

Serotonin and vitamin D have been proposed to play a role in autism; however, no causal mechanism has been established. Here, we present evidence that vitamin D hormone (calcitriol) activates the transcription of the serotonin-synthesizing gene tryptophan hydroxylase 2 (TPH2) in the brain at a vitamin D response element (VDRE) and represses the transcription of TPH1 in tissues outside the blood-brain barrier at a distinct VDRE. The proposed mechanism explains 4 major characteristics associated with autism: the low concentrations of serotonin in the brain and its elevated concentrations in tissues outside the blood-brain barrier; the low concentrations of the vitamin D hormone precursor 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D3]; the high male prevalence of autism; and the presence of maternal antibodies against fetal brain tissue. Two peptide hormones, oxytocin and vasopressin, are also associated with autism and genes encoding the oxytocin-neurophysin I preproprotein, the oxytocin receptor, and the arginine vasopressin receptor contain VDREs for activation. Supplementation with vitamin D and tryptophan is a practical and affordable solution to help prevent autism and possibly ameliorate some symptoms of the disorder.—Patrick, R. P., Ames, B. N. Vitamin D hormone regulates serotonin synthesis. Part 1: relevance for autism


LINK

quote:

Vitamin D and the omega-3 fatty acids control serotonin synthesis and action, part 2: relevance for ADHD, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and impulsive behavior
Rhonda P. Patrick1 and Bruce N. Ames1
+ Author Affiliations

Nutrition and Metabolism Center, Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Institute, Oakland, California, USA
?1Correspondence: Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Institute, 5700 M.L. King Jr. Way, Oakland, CA 94609, USA. E-mail: rpatrick@chori.org (R.P.P.), and bames@chori.org (B.N.A.)
Abstract

Serotonin regulates a wide variety of brain functions and behaviors. Here, we synthesize previous findings that serotonin regulates executive function, sensory gating, and social behavior and that attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and impulsive behavior all share in common defects in these functions. It has remained unclear why supplementation with omega-3 fatty acids and vitamin D improve cognitive function and behavior in these brain disorders. Here, we propose mechanisms by which serotonin synthesis, release, and function in the brain are modulated by vitamin D and the 2 marine omega-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Brain serotonin is synthesized from tryptophan by tryptophan hydroxylase 2, which is transcriptionally activated by vitamin D hormone. Inadequate levels of vitamin D (~70% of the population) and omega-3 fatty acids are common, suggesting that brain serotonin synthesis is not optimal. We propose mechanisms by which EPA increases serotonin release from presynaptic neurons by reducing E2 series prostaglandins and DHA influences serotonin receptor action by increasing cell membrane fluidity in postsynaptic neurons. We propose a model whereby insufficient levels of vitamin D, EPA, or DHA, in combination with genetic factors and at key periods during development, would lead to dysfunctional serotonin activation and function and may be one underlying mechanism that contributes to neuropsychiatric disorders and depression. This model suggests that optimizing vitamin D and marine omega-3 fatty acid intake may help prevent and modulate the severity of brain dysfunction.—Patrick, R. P., Ames, B. N. Vitamin D and the omega-3 fatty acids control serotonin synthesis and action, part 2: relevance for ADHD, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and impulsive behavior.


The issue is likely multifactorial...



quote:

Men who have excessive faith in their theories or ideas are not only ill prepared for making discoveries; they also make very poor observations. Of necessity, they observe with a preconceived idea, and when they devise an experiment, they can see, in its results, only a confirmation of their theory. In this way they distort observation and often neglect very important facts because they do not further their aim…. But it happens further quite naturally that men who believe too firmly in their theories, do not believe enough in the theories of others. So the dominant idea of these despisers of their fellows is to find others’ theories faulty and to try to contradict them. The difficulty, for science, is still the same.

CLAUDE BERNARD, An Introduction to the Study of Experimental Medicine, 1865


You can apply to this to many current "settled science" issues that many report to have completely figured out (with religious-like fervor...)
Posted by ThinePreparedAni
In a sea of cognitive dissonance
Member since Mar 2013
11315 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:48 pm to
controversial paper that got people pissed at Sheryl Atkinson

quote:



Review Article
Theoretical aspects of autism: Causes—A review
Helen V. Ratajczak
Pages 68-79 | Received 27 Aug 2010, Accepted 01 Dec 2010, Published online: 07 Feb 2011
Download citation LINK


Autism, a member of the pervasive developmental disorders (PDDs), has been increasing dramatically since its description by Leo Kanner in 1943. First estimated to occur in 4 to 5 per 10,000 children, the incidence of autism is now 1 per 110 in the United States, and 1 per 64 in the United Kingdom, with similar incidences throughout the world. Searching information from 1943 to the present in PubMed and Ovid Medline databases, this review summarizes results that correlate the timing of changes in incidence with environmental changes. Autism could result from more than one cause, with different manifestations in different individuals that share common symptoms. Documented causes of autism include genetic mutations and/or deletions, viral infections, and encephalitis following vaccination. Therefore, autism is the result of genetic defects and/or inflammation of the brain. The inflammation could be caused by a defective placenta, immature blood-brain barrier, the immune response of the mother to infection while pregnant, a premature birth, encephalitis in the child after birth, or a toxic environment.

Keywords:: Autism, autism spectrum disorder, pervasive developmental disorder


quote:

Summary

Autism has increased to epidemic proportions, affecting four times as many males and females. With a prevalence of 1/110 in the United States, 1/64 in the United Kingdom, and similar ratios in many other countries, a very significant threat to future generations is evident. This review cites documentation of causes of autism, including genetic mutations/deletions, viral infections (i.e., rubella and herpes), and encephalopathy following vaccination.

It is possible that autism results from more than one cause, with different manifestations in different individuals that share common symptoms. Integrating the data presented here, a hypothesis is that autism is the result of genetic defects, with the contributory effect of advancing age of the parents, and/or inflammation of the brain. The inflammation could be caused by a defective placenta, an immature blood-brain barrier, the immune response of the mother to a viral or bacterial infection, a premature birth, encephalitis in the child after birth, or a toxic environment. Also, intracellular pathogens could induce an immune response, resulting in neuro-inflammation, autoimmune reactions, brain injury, and autism.

Conclusion

Autism has been documented to be caused by genetic defects and/or inflammation of the brain. The inflammation could be caused by a wide variety of environmental toxicants, infections, and co-morbidities in individuals genetically prone to the developmental disorder.
This post was edited on 1/10/17 at 6:50 pm
Posted by gthog61
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
71001 posts
Posted on 1/10/17 at 6:49 pm to
It is a Kennedy.

What a beautiful beatuifu display of reaching across the aisle!
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138978 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 7:15 am to
quote:

Of course the incidence has increased
You are conflating diagnosis (ASD) and reported incidence with incidence.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138978 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:22 am to
quote:

You're right, but at least in the case of Autism and vaccines, the "massaged" facts were from the ONE study--with a sample size of like a dozen--of a hack researcher.

Though perhaps the CDC would attempt to claim otherwise publically, no one with even a modicum of medical knowledge argues that vaccines are risk free. There are rare serious complications. For this reason the US established the NVIC – National Vaccine Injury Compensation program.

For example, in 2012 IAW NVIC protocol there was a finding, against HHS, of vaccination culpability in development of autism following an MMR inoculation.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
80906 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:01 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/13/21 at 8:32 am
first pageprev pagePage 9 of 12Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram