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Started By
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re: Thoughts on the Movie, Oppenheimer
Posted on 7/24/23 at 10:57 pm to joshnorris14
Posted on 7/24/23 at 10:57 pm to joshnorris14
quote:
The conditions which the US would accept from Japanese surrender. In June, the US was demanding unconditional surrender, but in August, after the bombs were dropped, the US accepted a conditional surrender.
It was unconditional.
1
Posted on 7/24/23 at 11:15 pm to andouille
Yes, correct - The surrender was in fact unconditional. MacArthur ran Japan for 6 years after the war.
The japs were fanatical / suicidal and had their entire population brainwashed into thinking they would have to fight us to the death or be raped and tortured (things their own army actually did). They (Jap civilians) jumped off of cliffs on Iwo Jima due to this.
We were looking at an estimated 1M additional casualties with a mainland Japan invasion. Troops in Europe (both of my grandfathers) would have been heading into the grinder in Japan instead of coming home if we hadn’t used the bomb.
So gtfo with your war crimes bullshite.
The japs were fanatical / suicidal and had their entire population brainwashed into thinking they would have to fight us to the death or be raped and tortured (things their own army actually did). They (Jap civilians) jumped off of cliffs on Iwo Jima due to this.
We were looking at an estimated 1M additional casualties with a mainland Japan invasion. Troops in Europe (both of my grandfathers) would have been heading into the grinder in Japan instead of coming home if we hadn’t used the bomb.
So gtfo with your war crimes bullshite.
This post was edited on 7/24/23 at 11:17 pm
Posted on 7/24/23 at 11:55 pm to Wednesday
quote:
8- I should have never gone to see this movie bc I'm currently reading Dr. Mary's Monkey.
I’ve been mulling over trying to put together an effort to get Haslam on joe rogan. It would essentially involve those of us on TD who’ve read the book to recruit everyone to go upvote a request on the joe rogan reddit… so it probably wont work.
This post was edited on 7/24/23 at 11:56 pm
Posted on 7/25/23 at 12:36 am to Wednesday
Gotta love the Poli.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 12:52 am
Posted on 7/25/23 at 1:49 am to Wednesday
This reads a bit tin-foil-hattish
Posted on 7/25/23 at 2:54 am to joshnorris14
quote:
almost identical terms
is that like being almost pregnant??
what were the differences??
I was almost one year old when WWII started. My first memory is Pearl Harbor. I have lived with WWII and its aftermath my entire life
I haver never heard of any 'almost surrender' scenario that would not have to be enforced by the physical invasion of the Japan island itself.
Could you elaborate on what the boundaries of this 'almost surrender' condition might be??
Posted on 7/25/23 at 4:00 am to Shamoan
quote:A bit?
This reads a bit tin-foil-hattish
Posted on 7/25/23 at 5:23 am to joshnorris14
quote:That is not just categorically false, it's willfully ignorant.
The Japanese offered surrender an almost identical terms two months prior to the bombings.
Japanese belief in 1945 held that Americans had little stomach for an invasion of Japan (Operation Downfall). After Okinawa, estimates of US casualties in Downfall were appalling, with likelihood it might have doubled overall US WWII casualties, or worse. Any premise of peace on the part of their military high-command was founded on that singular predicate.
Such premises are not the basis of surrender. They are the basis of a longterm ceasefire, akin to the end of the Korean War. That is the tenor of pre-Nagasaki Japanese peace offerings.
After years of mutual USSR-Japan neutrality, the Japanese reached out to the USSR as its negotiating partner and ceasefire intermediary.
Both were miserable miscalculations which, if you've researched this as you intimate, you would know.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 5:34 am to Wednesday
quote:The Hollywood conundrum:
I don't buy any Hollywood interpretation that he was not a commie, bc again, Hollywood is infested with morons who think that being a communist is the epitome of virtue.
Marxists believe Communism is the epitome of virtue, therefore they do everything they can to deny being Communists.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:45 am to Wednesday
I had all intentions of seeing the film but now I REALLY want to see it after your review. Thanks!
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:57 am to Wednesday
It is a pretty good movie. Liberties are taken with historical facts but almost any film would do that. I don't believe that Oppenheimer was a communist. I do think he had some communist friends but he knew his own mind and was not easily influenced.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:57 am to HubbaBubba
quote:Great link and read... thanks!
Read some history.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:06 am to joshnorris14
quote:
The Japanese offered surrender an almost identical terms two months prior to the bombings.
And yet, it took two bombs dropped days apart - not one - before they finally surrendered.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:11 am to joshnorris14
2,403 ghosts around the USS Arizona would probably agree that dropping those bombs would have been justified even AFTER a surrender.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:14 am to Wednesday
What’s it like having to digest everything through a lens of conservacuck politics?
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:51 am to Wednesday
quote:
LeMay's firebombing of most major Japanese cities caused far far more damage, and countless more lives than the two bombs.
The B-29 development cost more than the Manhattan project. The US developed it because they believed they would need a bomber that could be deployed long range from the US because Britian would fall and there would be no bases in Europe.
quote:
We were looking at an estimated 1M additional casualties with a mainland Japan invasion. Troops in Europe (both of my grandfathers) would have been heading into the grinder in Japan instead of coming home if we hadn’t used the bomb.
I'm glad that these facts are being brought up.
There were major factors at play all along during WW2. The Japanese and the Germans were both working on their own nuclear projects during the war and we had to get the Bomb first. Both countries ran into roadblocks that halted their bombs. The Allies effectively ended the Germans supply of heavy water. But don't forget that the Germans had developed their version of a ballistic missile (V-2) and were lobbing them on Britain. With a second stage they might have lobbed them on NYC.
We had lost massive numbers of sailors, Marines,soldiers,ships, and aircraft in the retaking of the Pacific from the Nips. A D- Day style invasion of the Japanese mainland would have resulted in a million deaths of our soldiers in the first week.
Yes the physicists who worked on the first two bombs were concerned with a runaway chain reaction in the atmosphere with the detonation of the first bomb in New Mexico. Yes we dropped the first bomb on ourselves.
Finally I did engineering work for 4 physicists at Los Alamos. The government does not trust the scientists. It feels that the scientist are holding back on discoveries and being secretive( Huge sums of money are involved). In turn the physicists do not trust the government for lying about how it will use their discoveries and this is where this 'communists' crap comes from. Most (if not all) of these physicists want their discoveries to be used to advance the human race, they have visions of a peaceful utopia where every need is provided with out much labor being involved . We all know the world doesn't work that way and those who speak out will be accused of being a puppy killer, child molester, or a communists.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 8:25 am to Damone
quote:
What’s it like having to digest everything through a lens of conservacuck politics?
Don’t worry. Both the republicans and the Democrats are the “bad guys” in the movie. Even the communists are the bad guy.
It’s not a right vs left thing. It’s an almost Shakespearean level analysis of the Prometheus myth. Full off compelling moral and ethical dilemmas about war and peace, politics and discovery. It’s fascinating precisely bc no matter where you are on the political spectrum, it will cause you to rethink your world view. The passage of time makes it possible for us to view it objectively from an historical standpoint.
But you go ahead and do you, and make no effort to see anything outside of your lens. Good luck with your myopia
Posted on 7/25/23 at 8:37 am to Damone
quote:Weird comment. What's the basis?
What’s it like having to digest everything through a lens of conservacuck politics?
Posted on 7/25/23 at 8:46 am to trinidadtiger
I lived in Yokohama for a year in 1983-1984 period and had a wonderful older Japanese maid. She would meet me at the entrance door to the house with a one liter beer after work, while she prepared supper for my wife and three kids.
She told us stories about the firebombing of Tokyo that she sheltered from first hand, including spending the nights in canal and bay waters. Her terror was real. The firebombing was directed at the civilian population.
She told us stories about the firebombing of Tokyo that she sheltered from first hand, including spending the nights in canal and bay waters. Her terror was real. The firebombing was directed at the civilian population.
This post was edited on 11/11/23 at 8:57 am
Posted on 7/25/23 at 8:48 am to Damone
quote:
What’s it like having to digest everything through a lens of conservacuck politics?
What the frick are you talking about?
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