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re: The Times reporting the CIA destroyed Nordstream
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:23 pm to kingbob
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:23 pm to kingbob
quote:
Now, if it turns out the pipeline was destroyed purely by negligence/mechanical failure, that does sound pretty Russian, and shifting blame to the U.S. would be a pretty good strategy. However, Russia had ZERO motive to purposely destroy that pipeline.
if you look at the pictures and know about welding procedures and corrosion....pretty clear thats exactly what happened.
2
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:24 pm to wileyjones
omlandshark is having a stroke somewhere
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:28 pm to kingbob
quote:
Nordsstream was their leverage. With Nordstream operating, Russia could choose or choose not to send gas to Germany, and use that gas as a bargaining chip.
Thing is, it wasn't operating.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:29 pm to wileyjones
quote:which Times?
The Times reporting the CIA destroyed Nordstream
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:32 pm to kingbob
quote:
I saw ZERO Russian motive for destroying the pipeline in the first place.
Well the argument is: (1) the pipeline was useless and (2) it's an "attempt to turn the Western allies against each other", which Russia needs.
You may not think that's the best motive, which is fine, but it's a lot more than ZERO
quote:
Nordsstream was their leverage. With Nordstream operating, Russia could choose or choose not to send gas to Germany, and use that gas as a bargaining chip.
Germany flipped that leverage via sanctions, though.
quote:
They could cut a deal that if Germany agreed to back Russian peace plans, then Germany would immediately get all the gas they need at a discount.
That ship has, apparently, sailed.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:48 pm to lsu777
quote:
if you look at the pictures and know about welding procedures and corrosion....pretty clear thats exactly what happened.
Please explain this in detail
This post was edited on 2/8/23 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Germany flipped that leverage via sanctions, though.
Sanctions can be lifted and reversed much more quickly than undersea pipelines can be repaired.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:03 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
Frick that. Just because you have nuclear weapons doesn't mean you can go around invading sovereign countries that never acted against you.
Putin F'd around and now he's finding out
The 80s called and they want their foreign policy back. Am I doing this right?
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:34 pm to JudgeHolden
quote:but there was a jubilee on the Danish coast
All I know is that crawfish prices went up at the same time as this explosion.
It was though Pugsley and Wednesday Addams used their favorite bait - hand grenades
only B I G G E R
[ETA: I just realized two things.
1. Denmark doent have jubilees
2. There are only two places in the world that do and Mobile Bay is one of them]
Pugsley and Wednesday's favorite bait holds...
This post was edited on 2/8/23 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:42 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
overthrowing the Ukranian govt.
The government that isn't in power?
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:46 pm to wileyjones
Ah yes, a grand conspiracy between the US, Norway and others to attack the infrastructure of NATO allies. Planned months in advance to respond to a Russian invasion that hadn’t happened yet. And Sy Hersh knows because he has the most deeply connected single source in American history.
Sounds legit.
Sounds legit.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:50 pm to wileyjones
quote:Well that escalated in a hurry.
The Times reporting the CIA destroyed Nordstream
No one outside a poliboard was going to see the seymourhersh.substack. Getting to the UK Times is a whole new paradigm. We'll obviously continue to deny involvement. But it sure quacks like a duck. It's starting to swim like a duck ...
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:54 pm to Decatur
I believe the concept was that the NATO alliance was shaky as several members were reliant on Russian gas. Certain members of the alliance feared that members who needed Russian gas would falter under growing domestic pressure from disruptions in gas supplies as these nations attempted to supply themselves with gas from elsewhere.
The pipeline thus represented a lifeboat which could be used to rapidly normalize relationships. Germany is one of the nations most reliant on Russian gas. The fear was that while Germany was onboard with sanctions to start, that as the war dragged on, Germany would not be capable of replacing those gas supplies fast enough to keep their economy running (we can remain retarded longer than they can remain solvent). Thus, internal pressure within Germany might force them to reverse sanctions, buy Russian gas, and support Russian peace plans in order to stave off an internal economic and political crisis.
Basically, certain coalition members didn’t trust the German resolve, so they allegedly sabotaged the pipeline so that Germany would have no lifeboat to flee to. Germany can only get its fuel by diversifying its energy supply, rapidly building LNG infrastructure, and/or by Ukraine winning the war. It was tantamount to an invading general burning his ships behind him so his army knows there’s no turning back. It’s victory or death.
The pipeline thus represented a lifeboat which could be used to rapidly normalize relationships. Germany is one of the nations most reliant on Russian gas. The fear was that while Germany was onboard with sanctions to start, that as the war dragged on, Germany would not be capable of replacing those gas supplies fast enough to keep their economy running (we can remain retarded longer than they can remain solvent). Thus, internal pressure within Germany might force them to reverse sanctions, buy Russian gas, and support Russian peace plans in order to stave off an internal economic and political crisis.
Basically, certain coalition members didn’t trust the German resolve, so they allegedly sabotaged the pipeline so that Germany would have no lifeboat to flee to. Germany can only get its fuel by diversifying its energy supply, rapidly building LNG infrastructure, and/or by Ukraine winning the war. It was tantamount to an invading general burning his ships behind him so his army knows there’s no turning back. It’s victory or death.
This post was edited on 2/8/23 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 2/8/23 at 3:41 pm to wileyjones
Interesting. All of you now believe the media. Weird.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 3:44 pm to kingbob
I'm not sure that I buy Germany not having knowledge of the operation. It allegedly took place with the cooperation of at least Norway, during a NATO exercise in which Germany participated.
That would be some devious shite to not inform members of the alliance when it so directly impacted them and damned near occurred inside their territory. I would like (ha!) to think that the Germans were in the loop, or at least told about it ahead of time. I feel like had we not told anyone but the Brits and Norwegians/Danes about it, inner-NATO relations would be more publicly strained than they are.
That would be some devious shite to not inform members of the alliance when it so directly impacted them and damned near occurred inside their territory. I would like (ha!) to think that the Germans were in the loop, or at least told about it ahead of time. I feel like had we not told anyone but the Brits and Norwegians/Danes about it, inner-NATO relations would be more publicly strained than they are.
This post was edited on 2/8/23 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 2/8/23 at 3:47 pm to Indefatigable
I don’t buy anything with respect to the Ukraine/Russia conflict. Everything here is just speculation and conjecture based on the information available. I can’t see the German government acquiescing to the destruction of their economic lifeline.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 3:57 pm to kingbob
quote:
I can’t see the German government acquiescing to the destruction of their economic lifeline
It wasn't operating at the time, and hasn't since obviously. Not sure I can believe that the Nord Streams were the only thing standing between Germany and economic death.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 3:58 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
The Times is a UK-based newspaper.
And the guy is only using an "anonymous source", which was routinely joked about on the PoliBoard during anti-Trump reporting during the Trump presidency.
quote:
Nord Stream Sabotage Was CIA, US Navy Covert Op: Seymour Hersh Bombshell Prompts White House Response
Famed journalist and Pulitzer prize winner Seymour Hersh, who for decades was a star reporter writing for The New York Times and New Yorker, on Wednesday published a new bombshell as his first Substack post, prompting a quick White House response
Posted on 2/8/23 at 4:01 pm to JackieTreehorn
quote:Don't worry Putin hasn't forgotten. He is absolutely pummeling the Ukraine right now...and our shiny new weapons too.
That is an act of war if there ever was one.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 4:03 pm to JackieTreehorn
quote:
That is an act of war if there ever was one.
Against who?
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