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Message
re: The Shooting of Michael Brown: Focus on the Police State; NOT racism
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:11 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
he did more than argue. when they went in to cuff him, he turned around, refused to let them cuff him, and then pulled his arm back
Yeah. I don't honestly GAF about the police argument there. The police training in an instance like that escalates rather than de-escalates the violence in that situation. I'd further add that I think they didn't have PC.
I get what you're saying. Don't give them a reason. I say that all too often they don't need a reason and will create the same charge whether you resist or not.
This post was edited on 8/11/14 at 8:12 am
2
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:15 am to the808bass
quote:
I get what you're saying. Don't give them a reason. I say that all too often they don't need a reason and will create the same charge whether you resist or not.
oh i'm not talking about the arrest/charge part. if they want to do that, they will lie or construct a creative narrative with lots of interpretation to fit into some bullshite charge they can arrest you for. at that point, you have to just realize they are going to arrest you. accept the fact, shut up, and deal with it after
what i'm talking about is the threat of death. don't give them a reason to kill you.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:19 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
I agree. And I don't have any data on this (if you have some please let me know) but it just seems as if unarmed black people get killed more than unarmed individuals of other races. Again, I have no stats to back up that statement up, so it may be totally erroneous. But if thats the truth then that lends credence to this being both a police state AND a racial issue.
Black enclaves are far more violent that White; in many, children are taught from childhood to hate Police, just like Muslims are taught to hate Jews. We've got a real problem with the Gang sub-culture.
And we've all saw the videos of BR Hoods, with thugs brandishing all manner of high-power heat. What do yall think would happen if we woke up one morning and there was a economic collapse...and no QE credit left to bail us out? You would be damn glad to see some overwhelming Authority in the street, just like in Katrina.
That said, power corrupts. Especially individuals who can't handle it for various psychological reasons. We are between a rock and a hard place. As our society becomes polarized and more apt to violence, the Authorities will necessarily become more authoritative. I.e., less individual freedoms and more abuses.
One of the Framers said that our form of Constitutional freedom was only workable for a "moral and religious people". To the degree that we are no more moral and religious...kiss freedom bye.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:46 am to the808bass
quote:
I'd further add that I think they didn't have PC.
Did you read the same article as me? The article I read was one sided and provided nothing to make me believe this happened as alluded to in its text. There are apparently pictures so why not wait until those are released to pass judgment? And, by the way, PC is not required to detain someone or make a traffic stop only reasonable suspicion.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:52 am to RCDfan1950
I think the image of 'police' in camoe dress and weapons of war increases the idea of 'police state'. Having a policed society is a needed entity for us to maintain stability. It is proven over time that given conditions conducive to behaviors that normally are not acceptable such as rioting, looting, burning and other destructive things, we as a society or even just fractions of society will do these things to one and another.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:52 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
oh i'm not talking about the arrest/charge part. if they want to do that, they will lie or construct a creative narrative with lots of interpretation to fit into some bullshite charge they can arrest you for.
Good Lord! If I honestly believed our criminal justice system worked this way I would be on the first plane out of this country for good. I think many of you don't take the time to reason things out when police are involved. Surely you understand that it is a felony offense for a cop to write a false report and testify falsely in court. What reasonable person would do such a thing just to make an arrest? Would you do this? Would anyone you know do such a thing? Do you honestly believe cops are that much different than you and your friends are? Why would someone commit a felony to make an arrest? Why would someone commit a felony to make an arrest when they have nothing to gain and everything to lose? Does it happen? VERY rarely just about anything happens but this is not something that happens with ANY significant frequency because it is outside of the bounds of reason. Now if cops were paid 10 million dollars each time they wrote a false report reason tells me that you would see many false reports filed.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:55 am to SlowFlowPro
When I look at those pictures from Boston, I think about how many people died...and then I recall stories of more than 3 people dying in one day in NOLA, Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, Atlanta, etc.
Terrorism works really well when you're scaring the shite out of venti latte liberals.
They should've rebuilt the twin towers exactly as they were (obvious structural improvements)...terrorists have yet to get the message that we are business as usual.
Terrorism works really well when you're scaring the shite out of venti latte liberals.
They should've rebuilt the twin towers exactly as they were (obvious structural improvements)...terrorists have yet to get the message that we are business as usual.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:58 am to SlowFlowPro
While I do agree the focus right now should be on the militarization of the local police, but in the coming days the focus should shift on the narrative coming from the police. It's already started with their saying Brown went for the cops gun, which has been refuted by eyewitnesses. Watch as the police work to protect their own and demonize Brown in the coming days. If it hasn't already been thrown out there, the word "thug" will eventually come out.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:01 am to DanTiger
quote:
Good Lord! If I honestly believed our criminal justice system worked this way
i do criminal defense. it does work this way, sir
i didn't say this occurs in every instance, nor am i implying that...but if they want to arrest you, they will arrest you
quote:
Surely you understand that it is a felony offense for a cop to write a false report and testify falsely in court.
their risk of actually having to testify is low, and the criminal justice system gives police an overwhelming amount of credibility. the odds of a cop ever being busted for this are almost 0 (especially with the "blue shield" where it is understood that cops lie to protect cops)
also if you're a cop, you just lie about things that can't be disproven. "a smell of alcohol was being emmitted by the driver" or "as i approached the vehicle, i smelled a strong odor of marijuana". you can't ever prove those are lies. cops are trained (both officially and by each other) in how to use the right words in police reports that are impossible to prove as a lie.
not every cop lies, but a lot of them do (and many are forced into lying to protect others, even if they don't want to)
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:07 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i do criminal defense. it does work this way, sir
On this point we disagree
quote:
i didn't say this occurs in every instance, nor am i implying that...but if they want to arrest you, they will arrest you
Of course it doesn't occur in every case. It almost never happens because logic dictates that it doesn't.
quote:
their risk of actually having to testify is low, and the criminal justice system gives police an overwhelming amount of credibility. the odds of a cop ever being busted for this are almost 0 (especially with the "blue shield" where it is understood that cops lie to protect cops)
That depends on why the arrest was made. Drug arrests go to court quite often. I also don't know where you all get this "glue shield" BS from. Many years ago cops did cover for each other when they shouldn't have but I simply don't see that anymore. I have no evidence to back this up just as you have no evidence of the blue shield so I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:19 am to DanTiger
quote:
Did you read the same article as me?
I was referencing the Eric Garner case with that statement regarding PC.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:22 am to DanTiger
quote:
Surely you understand that it is a felony offense for a cop to write a false report and testify falsely in court. What reasonable person would do such a thing just to make an arrest?
The same number of people in the general population who would commit felonies which are rarely prosecuted.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:23 am to SlowFlowPro
Thankfully, the local citizenry has reacted with the restraint and level-headedness that one would expect.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:30 am to the808bass
quote:
The same number of people in the general population who would commit felonies which are rarely prosecuted.
I don't believe that is true. What possible motivation would a cop have to testify falsely in court? He won't get a pay raise or any kind of bonus. Why in the world would he want to risk jail time for absolutely no reward?
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:33 am to DanTiger
quote:
Police departments have been rewarded in recent years for the sheer numbers of stops, searches and arrests. In the war on drugs, federal grant programs like the Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant Program have encouraged state and local law enforcement agencies to boost drug arrests in order to compete for millions of dollars in funding. Agencies receive cash rewards for arresting high numbers of people for drug offenses, no matter how minor the offenses or how weak the evidence. Law enforcement has increasingly become a numbers game. And as it has, police officers’ tendency to regard procedural rules as optional and to lie and distort the facts has grown as well. Numerous scandals involving police officers lying or planting drugs — in Tulia, Tex. and Oakland, Calif., for example — have been linked to federally funded drug task forces eager to keep the cash rolling in.
LINK
ETA: The motive for police perjury is as unimportant as the motive for civilian crime. Why would anyone steal a credit card and use it knowing they're likely going to get caught? Doesn't matter. People do it everyday.
Here's a recent example from Skokie, IL where police officers blatantly lied on the stand so badly the judge read one officer his Miranda rights on the stand.
LINK
This post was edited on 8/11/14 at 9:39 am
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:33 am to udtiger
quote:
Thankfully, the local citizenry has reacted with the restraint and level-headedness that one would expect.
I agree, plus I applaud their discernment. Eschewing the Night Trail or Tbird, this young social climber went with a Woodbridge and Yellow Tail.
This post was edited on 8/11/14 at 9:35 am
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:51 am to DanTiger
quote:
What possible motivation would a cop have to testify falsely in court? He won't get a pay raise or any kind of bonus. Why in the world would he want to risk jail time for absolutely no reward?
typical situation is the criminal has either out-smarted the cops or has made conscious decisions to limit his exposure, and the cops know IF they can search the guy, they'll find evidence of the criminal behavior
cops do NOT like to be out-smarted or out-maneuvered...esp by criminals
it doesn't even take a big lie to get to that point, and often the lie is an opinion that can never be disproven
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:54 am to son of arlo
quote:
I agree, plus I applaud their discernment. Eschewing the Night Trail or Tbird, this young social climber went with a Woodbridge and Yellow Tail.
It appears the fresh fruit is untouched.
Someone alert Michelle Obama.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:56 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it doesn't even take a big lie to get to that point, and often the lie is an opinion that can never be disproven
Yep. Probable cause has broad application unfortunately. ALWAYS refuse a cop permission to search your car, even if you have nothing to hide. Put the onus on him to find probable cause.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:56 am to udtiger
quote:
It appears the fresh fruit is untouched.
Someone alert Michelle Obama.
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