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re: The pressure on Sweden and the few Republican governors is enormous
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:49 am to Zappas Stache
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:49 am to Zappas Stache
quote:
Swedish cases and deaths are spiking over the last couple of days and their death rate is higher than other countries, so what was your point?
No matter the policies, EVERY countries death rate will spike. And Sweden’s death rate, while higher than some countries, is also lower than some countries.
My point is that Sweden, which is not mandating social distancing, is doing about average. They appear to be far better off than many countries, and a little worse off than others. Further, this is an embarrassment to leaders who have overreacted with lockdowns only to find that the actual death rates are far lower than the “experts” had led them to believe.
0
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:54 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
It’s getting worse there and rapidly. You’re looking at old data. Sweden has started to shut down, and it’s becoming obvious that their approach was wrong
bullshite! The data there looks like a rather slow growth. Quit looking at headlines, and look at data.
Daily deaths are flat the last four days, and daily cases are flat the last three. It’s not wise to assume it will stay so, but it’s even less wise to say “It’s getting worse there and rapidly.”
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:57 am to BeepNode
quote:
Fact: Sweden has over 50% more COVID-19 deaths per capita than the USA and they are not slowing down.
That’s half true. They ARE slowing down. You selectively used the USA, which has one of the best health care systems in the world. Now compare them to Spain? France? These aren’t fair comparisons either.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:57 am to ElJefe686
quote:
Shut up. Take your crap back to the poli board and take your politards with you.
I’ve never even read that board, so it’s not possible to go back.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:59 am to gthog61
quote:
shite, from "not doing enough!" to "overreacted" in 3 weeks
The whole thing was an overreaction but what was he going to do about it? The entire pop culture mafia that controls the sheep portion of the population was raging.
Sure, one guy should stand against all of that. That's feasible.
I agree with you. Trump and Boris Johnson had the right instincts. But they were cowed by the experts. And I don’t say they were wrong. This is all hindsight. You should err on the side of safety.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:59 am to Penrod
All of the disagreement is anchored on two tradeoffs: deaths vs. economic health.
Plenty of actions can be taken to mitigate deaths and the expense of the economy.
Plenty of actions can be taken to mitigate deaths and the expense of the economy.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:33 am to lynxcat
I'm okay with keeping freedoms in tact, letting Darwinism rule, and culling the heard. Will there be innocent lives lost? Yes. Am I okay with that? Absolutely. Life's a bitch and then you die.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:50 am to RoyalWe
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:57 am to Ronaldo Burgundiaz
quote:
Arkansas is a state that doesn't have a stay at home order and we are handling this a 100 times better than Louisiana.
Almost like government intervention doesn't have a big of an impact that authoritarians think it does.
Or it's almost like Arkansas didn't have a massive densely populated festival that functioned as a mass infection event like Louisiana did.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:59 am to Tigerfan1274
quote:
Article about it today. They haven’t shut down much of anything.
quote:
Some Swedish researchers are demanding the government must be stricter. This week several prominent Swedish clinicians wrote an open letter lamenting that large numbers of people are visiting bars, restaurants and shopping malls, even ski slopes. "This unfortunately is translating into a death toll that continues to climb in Sweden."
Their death rate is over three times that of Norway and nine times that of Finland. Yikes.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:01 am to Penrod
quote:
Every world leader, from Trump to Merkel, is worried about the perception that they overreacted. As the death toll estimates plummet, even from those that factored in social isolation, they are wholesaling the notion that social isolation is the reason. To make that case they can’t have successful exceptions.
You CANNOT win in this. Nobody wins, except for your political opponents. If you react strongly and little happens you overreacted. If you react strongly and it is warranted, massive people die and we all lose. If you react softly and mass casualties occur you should have done more. If you react softly and little happens it’s a sign that you’re not a strong leader and can’t be trusted when something much more serious comes down the road, and you put greed above people’s lives.
There’s always going to be condemnation and narratives that your opponents will use to incriminate you with. The only thing you can do is do the best you can, and seek consultation from professionals and experts, which is exactly what every leader has done.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:03 am to Penrod
quote:
bullshite! The data there looks like a rather slow growth. Quit looking at headlines, and look at data.
Trumpkins on here don't want to consider that our government may have made some poor decisions.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:15 am to cwil177
Sweden had banned any gatherings over 50. Universities, Hugh schools and adult Ed was closed.
It’s not as if they have had business as usual.
Their govt. is worried about their economy too.
LINK
It’s not as if they have had business as usual.
Their govt. is worried about their economy too.
quote:
Crisis package for jobs and transition Published 30 March 2020
The Government, the Centre Party and the Liberal Party are now presenting further measures to alleviate the impact of the virus outbreak on jobs and the economy in Sweden. The ongoing virus outbreak is having a major impact on the Swedish economy and many people have become, or risk becoming, unemployed. To alleviate the impact on the labour market, a crisis package for jobs and transition is now being presented.
LINK
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 9:18 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:42 am to cwil177
quote:
Their death rate is over three times that of Norway and nine times that of Finland. Yikes.
FWIW, we should be very careful in how “death rate” is being used or defined. Is this deaths per million? Any comparison has to be normalized for population.
Again, it’s a trade off between human life and the economic benefits for the rest of the population. Health professionals are typically going to have a lean toward preserving as many lives as possible as that is their function in society. The decisions don’t have a right or wrong answer and are only judged on an ethics continuum which is wholly subjective.
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 9:44 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:49 am to MusclesofBrussels
quote:
Trumpkins on here don't want to consider that our government may have made some poor decisions.
Our govt usually makes terrible decisions which is why I don ever trust them.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:50 am to cwil177
quote:
Their death rate is over three times that of Norway and nine times that of Finland
Wouldn't read too much into death rates at this point.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:56 am to RogerTheShrubber
If death rate is deaths divided by infected (based on testing) then those statistics are utter BS. Testing isn’t robust enough and we have no idea the number of actual infected given those that are a symptomatic. New cases is just as useless of a figure.
The only metrics with any potential validity right now is deaths and deaths per million. Even this is debatable because it’s unclear what qualifies as a CV death.
The only metrics with any potential validity right now is deaths and deaths per million. Even this is debatable because it’s unclear what qualifies as a CV death.
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 9:58 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:58 am to Zappas Stache
quote:
Swedish cases and deaths are spiking over the last couple of days and their death rate is higher than other countries, so what was your point?
And how does that compare with the overall death rate there in 2019?
The numbers I'm looking at suggest that people are dying around the life expectancy age there from the virus.
(through april 7th)
LINK
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 9:59 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 10:08 am to Penrod
Governor of my state isn't concerned. He gives no hope in his pressers about the April 30 deadline being it. At least not from the way I'm hearing what he's saying.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 10:10 am to Penrod
quote:Pfffttt...hindsight.
In hindsight (admittedly) we should have practiced social distancing in a few cities, but elsewhere we should have let citizens use their good sense.
I’ve been saying that since the beginning.
The idea that we have to shut down all retail businesses in all small towns because NO is fricked is moronic at its core.
But everyone bought into the models and reports that stated that half a million people would die.
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