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Started By
Message
“The Electoral College is f*cking stupid.”
Posted on 3/28/19 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 3/28/19 at 3:37 pm
Pod Saves America released this episode a week ago and I was listening to it on my way to court this morning. Holy moly, this is a melt and some serious mental gymnastics.
First, these are very progressive people. You just need to accept that and bear it in mind while listening. They were part of the Obama admin. They are open about it and their frustrations with our government. It's really good insight without getting too complicated or snarky (aka, Maddow-y).
The reason why you, as a non-progressive, want to listen is because their logic is utterly lost and hopeless. For a few examples, they rally against Republicans violating norms and disrespecting "institutions", but their podcast is literally based around attacking norms and institutions (like the EC). Another example is they legitimately cry over the USSC but at the same time attack the filibuster.
To summarize their argument, Orange Republicans bad because they understand how the system works (i.e., national popular votes don't determine everything). Orange Senate bad (because it effectively splits power by states and rural states out-number urban ones and this is a disadvantage for their side). Orange Electoral College bad (a combination of the lack of the power of a national vote as well as state representation). Filibuster bad (not that i don't disagree, but they also cry about the GOP nominating USSC justices and that's now only possible b/c of the nuclear option...and they claim the GOP ignores the norms of government when Harry Reid started it).
They clearly see that the urban-rural divide is our biggest one, and that this inherently disadvantages Democrats. Instead of understanding that and trying to work within the system, they just want to claim all the parts of their system are terrible, while criticizing the other side for having the balls to claim any part of the system is bad.
quote:
2020 candidates embrace a host of democratic reforms to give more people a bigger voice, Donald Trump eagerly awaits Robert Mueller’s report, Democrats work to maintain enthusiasm ahead of 2020, and Joe Biden strategizes about fundraising and a potential running mate. Then Congresswoman Lauren Underwood sits down with Jon Lovett about the change a new generation is bringing to the House.
First, these are very progressive people. You just need to accept that and bear it in mind while listening. They were part of the Obama admin. They are open about it and their frustrations with our government. It's really good insight without getting too complicated or snarky (aka, Maddow-y).
The reason why you, as a non-progressive, want to listen is because their logic is utterly lost and hopeless. For a few examples, they rally against Republicans violating norms and disrespecting "institutions", but their podcast is literally based around attacking norms and institutions (like the EC). Another example is they legitimately cry over the USSC but at the same time attack the filibuster.
To summarize their argument, Orange Republicans bad because they understand how the system works (i.e., national popular votes don't determine everything). Orange Senate bad (because it effectively splits power by states and rural states out-number urban ones and this is a disadvantage for their side). Orange Electoral College bad (a combination of the lack of the power of a national vote as well as state representation). Filibuster bad (not that i don't disagree, but they also cry about the GOP nominating USSC justices and that's now only possible b/c of the nuclear option...and they claim the GOP ignores the norms of government when Harry Reid started it).
They clearly see that the urban-rural divide is our biggest one, and that this inherently disadvantages Democrats. Instead of understanding that and trying to work within the system, they just want to claim all the parts of their system are terrible, while criticizing the other side for having the balls to claim any part of the system is bad.
11
Posted on 3/28/19 at 3:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
You should listen to Cum Town
Posted on 3/28/19 at 3:50 pm to SlowFlowPro
I understand why urban folks desire more govt. because life isn’t as simple because there is so many people.
That’s why the founders gave the states and local governments more power. They could run the states and cities as they saw fit.
However, the same folks ceded much of their power to the federal government and thus they lost a lot of control. Now big states and cities have to get in line with the rest of us and beg to get back more of theit tax dollars back.
Reality is they should never have given it all up.
That’s why the founders gave the states and local governments more power. They could run the states and cities as they saw fit.
However, the same folks ceded much of their power to the federal government and thus they lost a lot of control. Now big states and cities have to get in line with the rest of us and beg to get back more of theit tax dollars back.
Reality is they should never have given it all up.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 3:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
if team d were smart instead of pushing to amend the constitution, they'd be pushing voter registration in Madison, Detroit, Columbus, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, etc.., in states they lost
Posted on 3/28/19 at 3:55 pm to Machine
They certainly should not be promoting rent control and other measures that will continue to incentivize leftist clustering in urban areas. Let the market save you, DEMs
This post was edited on 3/28/19 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 3/28/19 at 3:57 pm to MF Doom
But really, who the frick listens to pod save America, not even leftists listen to that shite
Posted on 3/28/19 at 3:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
I'd like to move the EC more towards voting districts than winner take whole state, but popular vote is asinine.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:00 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Pod Saves America
Not so sure about that. He may save Westeros, though.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
In 2012, Donald Trump said, "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy. ... A total sham and a travesty."
On April 26, 2018, President Donald Trump told Fox & Friends that "I would rather have a popular election."
On Sixty Minutes on November 13, 2016, President-Elect Trump said: "I would rather see it, where you went with simple votes. You know, you get 100 million votes, and somebody else gets 90 million votes, and you win. There’s a reason for doing this. Because it brings all the states into play
On April 26, 2018, President Donald Trump told Fox & Friends that "I would rather have a popular election."
On Sixty Minutes on November 13, 2016, President-Elect Trump said: "I would rather see it, where you went with simple votes. You know, you get 100 million votes, and somebody else gets 90 million votes, and you win. There’s a reason for doing this. Because it brings all the states into play
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:01 pm to MF Doom
quote:i've never heard of it
But really, who the frick listens to pod save America, not even leftists listen to that shite
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:02 pm to bmy
I am perfectly capable of thinking Trump is a moron.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
i gave it a listen to counter ben shapiro.
they're incredibly myopic and Jon Favreau is one of the most self-important people in America. you can tell that guy thinks his farts don't stink.
they're incredibly myopic and Jon Favreau is one of the most self-important people in America. you can tell that guy thinks his farts don't stink.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:06 pm to bmy
quote:
In 2012, Donald Trump said, "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy. ... A total sham and a travesty."
On April 26, 2018, President Donald Trump told Fox & Friends that "I would rather have a popular election."
On Sixty Minutes on November 13, 2016, President-Elect Trump said: "I would rather see it, where you went with simple votes. You know, you get 100 million votes, and somebody else gets 90 million votes, and you win. There’s a reason for doing this. Because it brings all the states into play
No one's ever accused Trump of being a constitutional scholar.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:08 pm to 3nOut
quote:
you can tell that guy thinks his farts don't stink.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:12 pm to bmy
quote:He's wrong about the EC vs. NPV discussion.
In 2012, Donald Trump said, "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy. ... A total sham and a travesty."
On April 26, 2018, President Donald Trump told Fox & Friends that "I would rather have a popular election."
On Sixty Minutes on November 13, 2016, President-Elect Trump said: "I would rather see it, where you went with simple votes. You know, you get 100 million votes, and somebody else gets 90 million votes, and you win. There’s a reason for doing this. Because it brings all the states into play
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:13 pm to bmy
quote:
In 2012, Donald Trump said, "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy. ... A total sham and a travesty."
Cool man. Trump is terribly wrong and misguided on this issue. What’s your point? It’s not like he’s pushing to actually change the Constitution and eliminate it.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:13 pm to bmy
quote:How's this even remotely relevant? Unless you’re a Trumpet that thinks DJT is 100% right 100% of the time. But you’d be the only one in his thread to do it.
In 2012, Donald Trump said, "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy. ... A total sham and a travesty."
On April 26, 2018, President Donald Trump told Fox & Friends that "I would rather have a popular election."
On Sixty Minutes on November 13, 2016, President-Elect Trump said: "I would rather see it, where you went with simple votes. You know, you get 100 million votes, and somebody else gets 90 million votes, and you win. There’s a reason for doing this. Because it brings all the states into play
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:26 pm to bmy
quote:
In 2012, Donald Trump said, "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy. ... A total sham and a travesty."
On April 26, 2018, President Donald Trump told Fox & Friends that "I would rather have a popular election."
On Sixty Minutes on November 13, 2016, President-Elect Trump said: "I would rather see it, where you went with simple votes. You know, you get 100 million votes, and somebody else gets 90 million votes, and you win. There’s a reason for doing this. Because it brings all the states into play
Who cares what DJT said about the EC?
It’s not going anywhere, certainly not any time soon. Get over it.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
It's the rural/urban divide that causes people to fight over the EC. However we need to look at this from both perspectives. The EC is a necessity, but it does hold a double standard.
The issue was brought up once by LSUHouston. The fact of the matter is LA (and many other similar states) just dont have enough moderate paying jobs for their populations. They vicariously incentivize a good portion of their trained/educated workforce to move out. This potentially increases the number of people living in these cities.
In contrast, people living in more rural states keep the advantage of having a lower population density. So they get more say in their local government and ultimately a bigger voice in determining their states EC vote. What Republicans dont realize is that everyone doesn't want to live in their small town forever. Or maybe they do, but they realize capitalizing on an older electorate is great for elections. And it is.
Living in a city has different economic and social demands. This typically means less of a neighborly environment. Compromise is necessary for transportation, work, etc. So people will push for policies that may not be necessary in a town of 10,000 or less people.
TLDR Voting patterns are a reflection of environment just as much as personal preference. A moderate person is just as likely to vote Dem as they are GOP provided they live in an environment that promotes specific policies and lifestyles.
The issue was brought up once by LSUHouston. The fact of the matter is LA (and many other similar states) just dont have enough moderate paying jobs for their populations. They vicariously incentivize a good portion of their trained/educated workforce to move out. This potentially increases the number of people living in these cities.
In contrast, people living in more rural states keep the advantage of having a lower population density. So they get more say in their local government and ultimately a bigger voice in determining their states EC vote. What Republicans dont realize is that everyone doesn't want to live in their small town forever. Or maybe they do, but they realize capitalizing on an older electorate is great for elections. And it is.
Living in a city has different economic and social demands. This typically means less of a neighborly environment. Compromise is necessary for transportation, work, etc. So people will push for policies that may not be necessary in a town of 10,000 or less people.
TLDR Voting patterns are a reflection of environment just as much as personal preference. A moderate person is just as likely to vote Dem as they are GOP provided they live in an environment that promotes specific policies and lifestyles.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 4:44 pm to bmy
Trump is wrong about the EC and probably has little understanding for why we have it.
Sorry your "gotcha" attempt didn't pan out
Sorry your "gotcha" attempt didn't pan out
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