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re: The bible doesn't forbid homosexuality - the left

Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:39 pm to
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128773 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

immediately believes he's an expert.


It is fun to watch.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:40 pm to
quote:

Let’s say Jesus speaks in Aramaic. And then the writer of a New Testament book is writing in Greek. What’s the issue?
Several.

First, was the Greek writer even present to hear Jesus, and did the Greek writer also speak Aramaic or was someone translating for him? How good was his translator, which affects how closely the writing reflects the concepts that Jesus was conveying in a completely different language.

Second, if the Greek writer was NOT present, how many DIFFERENT people passed the story one-to-next before someone tried to write it down?

Are there concepts or assumptions that underlie the Aramaic that are not present (or not important) in Koine Greek? How much do they affect the translation?

Etc.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298828 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:41 pm to
quote:

immediately believes he's an expert.


It is fun to watch.


Once you get past the cringe, it is a blast. Its an object lesson in extreme narcissism.

Posted by THog
Member since Dec 2021
2282 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:42 pm to
sex as worship was all over the ancient world. and is not gone today imo. is an abomination. even after passover and leading them out of Egypt, they built a golden calf while Moses was on the mountain. pagan traditions seem to die hard. i also dont think its a coincidence that it was a calf idol. baal and molech are both represented as bulls.

is getting off topic, buttoo many Christians refuse to believe this kind or worship and idolatry is still going on. if you watch the eu games opening ceremony, you will see people appease a giant angry bull that had smoke from its nostrils. the elite are absolutley still carrying on such worship.
This post was edited on 12/10/22 at 2:48 pm
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46821 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:42 pm to
It's a game to him. He wants to win the mental gymnastics by destroying (in his mind) the faith of Christians.

There is a reason that homosexuality is translated as it is in the Bible. The language calls for it as well as the context. There is nothing in the Bible that even remotely supports the notion of homosexual unions. On the contrary, marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman, and then all sexual intercourse outside of marriage is called sexual immorality. That would include heterosexual fornication as well as homosexual fornication. There are laws against sex with animals and against fornication between the normative relationship of heterosexuality, but we're supposed to think that homosexuals were exempt from all of the laws against sexual immorality? Heterosexuals are called out by Jesus for committing adultery if they look at a woman with lust, but homosexuals are fine if they engage is homosexual sex? It's ridiculous. It's the natural man rebelling against his creator.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

immediately believes he's an expert.
Nope. Just a student with a real interest in learning.

Unlike some, who seem willing to accept the predigested pabulum presented to them by others.
Posted by Cajun Tiger 4
Member since May 2018
428 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:42 pm to
LINK

All sin is detestable to God. That is why Jesus came to pay a criminals death on the cross. Homosexuality is a sin. This article refutes the claim of those wanting to justify it. Sin is the problem. Jesus is the solution.
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:44 pm to
quote:

You’re explaining Christian documents to Christians. And not all that well.


If you think THAT'S something, wait til he starts lecturing black people about being black and gay people about being gay!

I think he's finally slipped his nut...
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66576 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

Isn't the current/prevailing theory that there are three (or maybe even four) "layers" or sources in Leviticus, each from different time periods?
4 different sources for the Torah (JEPD), but not necessarily 4 different sources for each of the 5 books. The P source would likely have written the book of Leviticus

quote:

but the Priestly (P) source could easily be during that time period, could it not?
The most convincing arguments I've seen place Leviticus in the late 6th century BC, right after the end of the Babylonian exile
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

Nope. Just a student with a real interest in learning.


You are a wannabe teacher who will drone on endlessly about things he knows nothing about.

Your entire life is a cut and paste shtick bolstered by really poorly done, cherry-picked studies.


Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

It's a game to him. He wants to win the mental gymnastics by destroying (in his mind) the faith of Christians.
Foo, you can have any faith you want to have. I literally do not care one iota what you believe. No skin off my nose.

The Bible is probably the most-important document ever written, for dozens of reasons. Trying to understand it is both interesting and important, in my view.

My efforts to understand it are historical, and yours are faith-based. Your approach does not bother me. Why does my approach bother you?
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:48 pm to
quote:

My efforts to understand it are historical, and yours are faith-based.


bullshite.

You are just as biased as any Bible-Thumper around.

Don't pretend your approach isn't tainted by your own biases.

Jesus you are such a lying doosh.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128773 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

First, was the Greek writer even present to hear Jesus, and did the Greek writer also speak Aramaic or was someone translating for him?


This is not a problem of translation and therefore irrelevant to the proposition of the poster.

quote:

How good was his translator, which affects how closely the writing reflects the concepts that Jesus was conveying in a completely different language.


Greek was the lingua franca of the sitz im leben. There’s no need to assume a Xiche native in Guatemala couldn’t translate into Spanish. And I certainly wouldn’t assume an Aramaic-speaker in Judea couldn’t port an idea into Greek without more than a flight of fancy.

quote:

Second, if the Greek writer was NOT present, how many DIFFERENT people passed the story one-to-next before someone tried to write it down?


Another flight of fancy in two ways. Oral cultures are very, very good at transmission of tradition. Your bias towards a written culture doesn’t me anything other than you’re biased.

quote:

Are there concepts or assumptions that underlie the Aramaic that are not present (or not important) in Koine Greek? How much do they affect the translation?


I automatically sneer at anyone who uses “Koine Greek.” It’s Attic Greek. The Greek everyone spoke and wrote in the post-Classical age. The only people who use the phrase are people who took Bible college Greek or people who are reading about Bible college Greek.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

The most convincing arguments I've seen place Leviticus in the late 6th century BC, right after the end of the Babylonian exile
Which would put it during the Classical period in Greece (and the Persian period in Judea). I think there is little debate that there was interchange between Greece and Judea, even during the Persian period and before the Hellenistic period. Right?

If so, the male temple prostitutes would have been known to them. Hell, Askelon was directly-adjacent to Judea, was a maritime trading city and was HEAVILY influenced by Greek culture. There may even have been Greek temples in Askelon, but I don't know one way or the other.

Of course, all that assumes that any theoretical reference to male temple prostitutes was a reference to GREEK culture. It would well have been a reference to some other temple/religion. Again, I don't find this a compelling explanation for the Leviticus passage anyway.
This post was edited on 12/10/22 at 3:04 pm
Posted by Maytheporkbewithyou
Member since Aug 2016
14125 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:52 pm to
I don't know about you guys, but I'm totally going to take my religious teaching from some random leftist in Twitter. She surely knows more than every preacher that I've ever listened to.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 2:59 pm to
you can't get blood from a turnip.
why address the topic from pov of a nonsense teaching?
the premise is false.
there is no other.
there is no big Other.
no murder of the central figure of the cult gets you out of your karmas.
this topic is treated in Henderson the Rain King. Saul bellow.
you'll thank me.
its religion for kiddies.

here's dharma.
aletheon
gnosticon.
by adi da
website. Adidam.org

Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
62958 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

CelticDog


Wrong. If you didn’t know you were wrong you wouldn’t care. But clearly you do.
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66576 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 3:02 pm to
quote:

Which would put it during the Classical period in Greece (and the Persian period in Judea). I think there is little debate that there was interchange between Greece and Judea, even during the Persian period and before the Hellenistic period. Right?

If so, the male temple prostitutes would have been known to them. Hell, Askelon was directly-adjacent to Judea, was a maritime trading city and was HEAVILY influenced by Greek culture. There may even have been Greek temples in Askelon, but I don't know one way or the other.
I'm not convinced of the Hellenistic influence on the insular Israelite culture during that period, but who knows?

Now the Persian and Babylonian influence? Absolutely. The Jews returned to Jerusalem speaking Aramaic, for one thing. And as we know, Aramaic was the language of Jesus 5 centuries later. There's also the Wise Men of Matthew's gospel, who were likely Zoroastrian priests
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

Now the Persian and Babylonian influence? Absolutely. The Jews returned to Jerusalem speaking Aramaic, for one thing. And as we know, Aramaic was the language of Jesus 5 centuries later
See, to me, that is the element that makes the "temple prostitute" theory hold at least SOME water. If the relevant passage was written DURING (or influenced BY events during) the Babylonian Captivity, it may involve temples and religions not of the Mediterranean, but instead of the Fertile Crescent and points east from there.

It is at least POSSIBLE that a Leviticus author was recording a concept developed when the exiled Jews (if they can yet be called that) were exposed on a daily basis in Babylon to the temples and practices any one or more of the polytheistic neo-Babylonian deities OR the religions of the myriad subject peoples within the neo-Babylonian empire.
quote:

the insular Israelite culture
This is where the terminology gets confusing for me. At this point in time (Babylonian and Hellenistic periods), the Northern Kingdom (Israel) had long been destroyed by the Assyrians. Judea remained. Do we still call them "Isrealites?" Judeans? proto-Jews? Can we finally start calling them "Jews," since the Second Temple is now being constructed and "Jew" is derived from "Judean" anyway? Maybe just semantics, but interesting anyway.
This post was edited on 12/10/22 at 3:15 pm
Posted by roadGator
DeBoar’s dome
Member since Feb 2009
157679 posts
Posted on 12/10/22 at 3:16 pm to
Out of many here with zero self awareness you are at the top.
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