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re: Tax Cuts for the Rich: Defend the position
Posted on 8/1/17 at 9:56 am to volod
Posted on 8/1/17 at 9:56 am to volod
quote:Your chart doesn't demonstrate that. Those are not effective tax rates. Do you understand the difference?
I was mainly just trying to show how previous trends lead up to the common misconceptions about tax rates in relation to job growth.
This post was edited on 8/1/17 at 9:57 am
1
Posted on 8/1/17 at 9:56 am to volod
Volod. I want you to ask yourself if all those evil rich people didn't invest their mountains of cash who would hurt first according to this macro economic flow chart.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 9:56 am to Machine
quote:
i'm happy somewhere between Nixon and Eisenhower era taxes
while keeping the same system of deductions?
Posted on 8/1/17 at 9:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:negative
while keeping the same system of deductions?
i also feel we as voters need to hold our elected officials to a higher standard. no reason we should be wasting as much money as this country does across the board. i don't think most people would have a problem with taxes if they knew their money was actually being spent efficiently, and could see the results in their communities and states
Posted on 8/1/17 at 9:59 am to Eurocat
quote:
Taxes should be raised on the rich.
They already have enough anyway.
It must be sad going through life being bitter and envious that others are more successful than you.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:03 am to Machine
quote:
i don't think most people would have a problem with taxes if they knew their money was actually being spent efficiently, and could see the results in their communities and states
Exactly why you won't hear me bitch about my property taxes in the Houston burbs. Our schools, parks, and local development is constant. We see our money spent, and spent well. And we're good with it.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:03 am to Eurocat
quote:Abject greed on display.
Taxes should be raised on the rich.
They already have enough anyway.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:04 am to MSMHater
quote:
Exactly why you won't hear me bitch about my property taxes in the Houston burbs. Our schools, parks, and local development is constant. We see our money spent, and spent well. And we're good with it.
It's almost like the closer the government is to the people it's governing, the more efficient and effective it is.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:05 am to MSMHater
quote:easily the thing that pisses me off the most about living in Louisiana. if i didn't have family and a solid job here, i'd head west
Exactly why you won't hear me bitch about my property taxes in the Houston burbs. Our schools, parks, and local development is constant. We see our money spent, and spent well. And we're good with it.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:05 am to Machine
quote:
negative
if your system becomes law, i'm going to for sure invest in cryptocurrencies because wealth in the US will vanish overnight
quote:
i also feel we as voters need to hold our elected officials to a higher standard
i don't disagree but that's just not going to happen
it's kind of why LA is fricked. our underclass has grown too big and keeps growing
quote:
i don't think most people would have a problem with taxes if they knew their money was actually being spent efficiently,
our federal spending is spent on (1) Medicare (2) Medicaid (3) Social Security and (4) Defense and (5) Interest on our debt
non-discretionary spending is 17% of the budget!
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:06 am to Eurocat
quote:
Taxes should be raised on the rich.
They already have enough anyway
Words of a fricking LOSER.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:07 am to SlowFlowPro
I see a great opportunity to decrease our budget by 47%.
Then we can go after the shitshow that is the DoD acquisition process and save some more.
Then we can go after the shitshow that is the DoD acquisition process and save some more.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:07 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:all areas that can be slashed, or retooled. well...minus 5
our federal spending is spent on (1) Medicare (2) Medicaid (3) Social Security and (4) Defense and (5) Interest on our debt
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:08 am to volod
Tax cuts across the board only if there is spending cuts across the board also. We are in debt, we don't get out of debt by racking up more credit. I get the argument for trickle down creates more jobs = more tax base etc, but we have a spending problem. Until that gets under control there is no point cutting income.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:09 am to Machine
quote:
all areas that can be slashed, or retooled.
good luck
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:11 am to volod
Your statement:
From your article:
So you want to lower taxes, but those taxes are mostly being paid by the "rich." So therefore you want to lower taxes on the rich. Congrats on being a Republican!
Also this:
This article disingenuously (I hope it isn't outright ignorance) glosses over that fact the rich people just don't stuff their money in a mattress; they invest it. That investment is the capital to start new businesses, fund innovation and pay for upgrades that make a more productive economy.
That's why he says it doesn't DIRECTLY produce jobs.
quote:
1) I agree that the government takes too much in taxes (both federal and state). The people should have more access to the money they earn.
From your article:
quote:
While it would be true that if you cut income taxes on the poor and low-end working people so they had more money in their pockets it would stimulate the economy, it's impossible. Why is it impossible? Because, as Rush Limbaugh and Mitt Romney point out as often as possible, the bottom 47 percent of American workers make so little money that they don't pay any income taxes. So there's nothing to cut. When Republicans talk about tax cuts, they're not talking about tax cuts for working people.
So you want to lower taxes, but those taxes are mostly being paid by the "rich." So therefore you want to lower taxes on the rich. Congrats on being a Republican!
Also this:
quote:
The thing that makes this a lie is that rich people behave differently from poor and working class people. When they get extra money from tax cuts, they don't spend it. After all, they already have pretty much everything they may want or need.
Instead, as we learned about Mitt Romney in 2012, they open bank accounts in the Cayman Islands and Switzerland and stash that money for future generations.
This article disingenuously (I hope it isn't outright ignorance) glosses over that fact the rich people just don't stuff their money in a mattress; they invest it. That investment is the capital to start new businesses, fund innovation and pay for upgrades that make a more productive economy.
That's why he says it doesn't DIRECTLY produce jobs.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
good luck
i'm not trying to fix the system, just explaining what most already know to be the problemPosted on 8/1/17 at 10:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:If one need examples of this, just look at where capital is plentiful.
if your system becomes law, i'm going to for sure invest in cryptocurrencies because wealth in the US will vanish overnight
It's instructive to see that nations with heinous taxation are the same ones resorting to QE and flirting with negative interest rates in an attempt to "stimulate" their economies into life by forcing (the little capital left) into the economy.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:17 am to volod
It a relative argument.
1) everyone has a different definition of rich. IS it $250k year, $100k a year, $1M year....
2) because of "progressive" tax brackets, the rich are already paying a larger percentage. If for the sake of numbers everyone paid a 10% flat tax, then the rich would still be paying more. (10% of $100k is $10k and 10% of $1M is $100k)
But since we have a bracket system, the rates go from 10% to i think 35%
So any attempt to lower % on any bracket will appear to give the rich a larger dollar cut in taxes, because they are saving that percentage on a larger sum of money.
3) The theory behind tax cuts creating jobs is that business/entrepreneurs a) need capitol for expansion and growth and b) its all about risk versus reward. Lower taxes lowers give a greater reward to offset the risks being taken. Also, it can extend profitability in businesses that are borderline profitable.
Main issue i have is the philosophy that takes cuts are gifts back to people/businesses. When in fact the money is already the persons/businesses. They earned the money. a tax break is the government just taking less.
Also, this country does not have a revenue issue we have a spending issue. If we raised taxes on everyone (neglecting diminishing returns) and balanced the budget this year, next year we would have a deficit. Spending is growing faster the GPD. Spending must be fixed or we will never balance a budget.
1) everyone has a different definition of rich. IS it $250k year, $100k a year, $1M year....
2) because of "progressive" tax brackets, the rich are already paying a larger percentage. If for the sake of numbers everyone paid a 10% flat tax, then the rich would still be paying more. (10% of $100k is $10k and 10% of $1M is $100k)
But since we have a bracket system, the rates go from 10% to i think 35%
So any attempt to lower % on any bracket will appear to give the rich a larger dollar cut in taxes, because they are saving that percentage on a larger sum of money.
3) The theory behind tax cuts creating jobs is that business/entrepreneurs a) need capitol for expansion and growth and b) its all about risk versus reward. Lower taxes lowers give a greater reward to offset the risks being taken. Also, it can extend profitability in businesses that are borderline profitable.
Main issue i have is the philosophy that takes cuts are gifts back to people/businesses. When in fact the money is already the persons/businesses. They earned the money. a tax break is the government just taking less.
Also, this country does not have a revenue issue we have a spending issue. If we raised taxes on everyone (neglecting diminishing returns) and balanced the budget this year, next year we would have a deficit. Spending is growing faster the GPD. Spending must be fixed or we will never balance a budget.
Posted on 8/1/17 at 10:17 am to MSMHater
Yep, same here on Long Island. Tons of taxes and I have great schools and a public pool (virtually free) and golf course (very minimal fees) within walking distance. And the cops come in about three minutes and so does the ambulance if some trouble happens. I have no problem paying taxes.
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