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re: Stunning Admission By Renowned Atheist; Decline of Christianity is Hurting Society
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:42 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:42 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
0
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:42 pm to theronswanson
quote:
Oh my. I can't figure out your angle. I think you mean to ask a few more remarkably broad questions then state I only have those feelings because of Christianity and that the Bible dictates how I should act in my marriage.
No one says the bible DICTATES what you do. You believe in it, or not. It's not a dictator.
Maybe think of the bible as a suggestion for a fruitful and good life (biblical good, not your arbitrary good you have created in your own head).
You're anti-religious so if you re going to make claims then I assume every single act you make is rooted in rigorous scientific research and facts. What else does a non-religious person believe in?
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:45 pm to SidewalkDawg
quote:
What angle are you shooting for here? I didn't make this claim.
quote:
quote:
It doesn't take a Religious experience to know these things. [basically all of societies moral truisms]
Do we have enough information to make this declaration on a societal level, though?
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:49 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
Maybe think of the bible as a suggestion for a fruitful and good life (biblical good, not your arbitrary good you have created in your own head).
You're anti-religious so if you re going to make claims then I assume every single act you make is rooted in rigorous scientific research and facts. What else does a non-religious person believe in?
The arrogance in this post is incredible.
And you conflate atheism with anti-religious. They are not the same.
I do not need religion to know to be a contributing member to society who doesnt cheat on or beat his wife.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:51 pm to CoachChappy
Other than sociopaths, well adjusted individuals possess a conscience. That’s what keeps us “in line. Perhaps the human conscience is what people refer to as God.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:52 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
In a truly secular society, in which men and women live their lives beneath empty heavens and expect to be recycled rather than resurrected, there is no solid moral foundation for good and evil
I'm fairly agnostic and lean atheist.
This is something I've said to others (both believers and not) several times the last few years. Humans need written religion, of which Christianity is the best, to give moral stability to society. Removing it is like ancient doctors removing organs that 'don't seem to do anything'. Once gone, the realization comes too late that that piece you worked to hard to remove was actually vital for the whole system to work.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:52 pm to CoachChappy
quote:
One question I have always wanted to ask a real atheist is: What keeps you in line? Most crimes go unsolved. What keeps you from murdering someone who aggravates you?
I attended Catholic schools from K- College but I no longer practice nor do I have any deeply held beliefs in a all powerful god. I still respect the teachings of Jesus and pray from time to time to whatever ethereal being might be listening but who or what that is I have no idea. Beyond just an innate sense that causing harm to others does not feel good I realize that society would crumble if we ceased to treat each other with kindness, civility, and respect.My catholic upbringing absolutely played a role in informing my moral sense but my Jesuit priest theology professor I think put it best Even an atheist can be a Christian. I try to be a good person with no expectation of reward/punishment/ at the time of my death.
When religious individuals behave morally based solely on the concept of reward or punishment, heaven or hell they are operating on a very child like way of viewing morality.
This post was edited on 11/7/19 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:53 pm to airlinehwypanhandler
quote:
When people turn away from religion, they still need to fill that void with something. Hence, filling it with social justice, left wing politics and worshipping the almighty state/government.
This is why the left always treats the questioning of their political dogma like a 14th century priest with the church teachings. They have removed one holy scripture and replaced it with another. People can do no other.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:56 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
When even atheists admit Christianity is necessary for an ordered moral society, the alarm has been sounded.
Lots of conservative atheists have been saying this for nearly a decade, they don't get much of a soapbox unfortunately.
I suspect as progressives pull the political rope further and further to the left you'll see more and more atheists accepting this.
I do disagree that only Christianity can act as a safeguard to what's occurring to our country, but I have zero issue standing besides Christians on most issues.
I wish I could return to the time when my biggest concern were 10 commandments in courthouses. Now look at America... Clownworld... We gotta turn the clock back a few decades.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:57 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
People can do no other.
what do you mean?
Posted on 11/7/19 at 1:57 pm to VOR
quote:
Other than sociopaths, well adjusted individuals possess a conscience. That’s what keeps us “in line. Perhaps the human conscience is what people refer to as God.
People can rationalize anything they do away. There's a reason why the 10 commandments (and Jesus's declarations in the NT) were simple: less room for misinterpretation. Even so, people try.
The thug who murders a store clerk has a conscience. He just soothes it by one of 3000 excuses. There is a difference between being ok with yourself, and knowing others (God) are.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 2:00 pm to airlinehwypanhandler
quote:
Atheists are scum in human form
Thats not a very kind thing to say to about fellow human that simply believes differently than you.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 2:00 pm to CoachChappy
quote:
One question I have always wanted to ask a real atheist is: What keeps you in line? Most crimes go unsolved. What keeps you from murdering someone who aggravates you?
Because I value a society that is peaceful and prosperous, and those sorts of behaviors do not create such a society.
Honest question, if there were no God you'd behave like that?
Posted on 11/7/19 at 2:00 pm to VOR
quote:
well adjusted individuals possess a conscience.
There's no such thing as a conscience though. That conscience is nothing more than a few neurons firing one way and the other. There is no conscience as there is nothing beyond the biological that exists. Or there shouldn't be with a purely atheist view.
If you were agnostic or a general deist in some sense, without being christian, sure. But a real athetist should believe in no "thing" beyond the biological. Conscience is then just an illusion that we decide to accept, or it's a biological reaction that merely exists to continue the existence of the species and drive biologically based decision making that evolves the species. Nothing more.
This post was edited on 11/7/19 at 2:01 pm
Posted on 11/7/19 at 2:02 pm to VOR
quote:
That’s what keeps us “in line.
BS, it's the fear of being caught and going to prison
Posted on 11/7/19 at 2:05 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
There's no such thing as a conscience though. That conscience is nothing more than a few neurons firing one way and the other. There is no conscience as there is nothing beyond the biological that exists. Or there shouldn't be with a purely atheist view.
Why can't neurons firing create, through a very long evolutionary process, feelings of altruism (a conscience).
If having those sorts of feelings increases the likelyhood of survival and the reproduction of your species then it would be selected naturally.
It's not hard to imagine how an altruistic nature would be a good thing for a species.
This post was edited on 11/7/19 at 2:08 pm
Posted on 11/7/19 at 2:05 pm to viceman
quote:
Is this a failing of the Christians parents and the churches?
Yes.
quote:
Are we failing our children by not bringing them up in the Sunday school?
Sunday school takes place in a church, which is just a building. We are failing our children when we place other things above the importance of instructing them in the Word.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 2:07 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
People can rationalize anything they do away. There's a reason why the 10 commandments (and Jesus's declarations in the NT) were simple: less room for misinterpretation. Even so, people try.
Humans realized well before Judaism that not murdering and stealing from your neighbor benefited the tribe. Not suggesting you believe this but a lot of ignorant people believe the Bible is the end all be all of coding morality.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 2:07 pm to Perfect Circle
“But as Christianity fades further and further into our civilization’s rear-view mirror,“
I can’t you guys seriously.
I can’t you guys seriously.
Posted on 11/7/19 at 2:08 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
what do you mean?
We are hardwired psychologically to religious like behavior. Not actual religion, but to have a religious-like structure in our beliefs. You can't get away from it.
Good Ted Talk about this
The one part Haidt gets wrong (my opinion) is measuring on a conservative/liberal framework. The real division is much more complex, but the part we're talking about here is purity. Purity can be defined in many, many ways, but you can see its application in political dogmas which set themselves as opposed to religion the most. One of the values in communist and far leftist ideology is purity of dogma or doctrine. Dissent is not allowed, as it would be the same as questioning holy scripture. The challenge for the left is that the dogma changes more readily than right-wing religion. Since the standard religion takes its writings from a deity that gave them centuries ago, it's not easily changed. Leftist dogma comes from the party or a dictator. That can change tomorrow, but deviation from it carries the same consequence as heresy in more strict religious times: execution, exile, excommunication, destitution, etc.
This is why people say 'the left eats itself'. It isn't that many people who are left wing are enemies, its that unless you are a scholar of leftist scripture (an SJW or similar) you might not 'get the memo' when dogma changes, and find yourself a heretic for espousing what was holy writ last week.
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