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Started By
Message
re: Stephen Hawking Dead - Hawking Radiation Proves Existence of God
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:36 am to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:36 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
To be fair, the onus IS on you. You are the one making the fantastic, affirmative claim
You might want to refresh yourself on what we are talking about specifically in this thread, Roger.
Specifically;
quote:
Isn't Heaven and hell only for those who believe? Why are you concerned about where people, that believe, say you are going if you don't believe in Jesus? This is what I don't get about non-believers. I subscribe to the belief of what Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If you don't, then it doesn't apply, correct?
quote:
Incorrect.
When it finds its way into legislation, it certainly applies.
I just asked for the specific legislation he is referring too?
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Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:38 am to FooManChoo
quote:
The existence of a prefect and holy God allows for an objective standard of morality because it would be imposed on humanity from outside ourselves.
That isn't what that means.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:39 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:I understand burden of proof. I'm talking about the one-sidedness of DB's argumentation.
To be fair, the onus IS on you. You are the one making the fantastic, affirmative claim against the null hypothesis. Both logic and the scientific method dictate it is your job to provide enough evidence for your claim that others must reject the bill hypothesis in favor of it.
I've argued with him a lot over the last year, providing proofs and evidences to support my statements. He rejects them--often times without sufficient reason or explanation--and continues attacking without offering proofs for his own accusations and statements.
It's why I've stopped responding to him directly. I'm more than happy to engage in discussion and debate with others who are interested in having it, but he's not interested in that so I don't oblige him any more.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:40 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Any legislation driven by religious beliefs.
That's dumb. None of us get to personally veto legislation because it doesn't match our belief system. Legislation is passed by our representation, who are voted into office by us. If the will of the people (via our representative government) is to enact laws as a result of religion, that's not any bigger of a problem than laws that are a result of any other ideology. The obvious exception to this are constitutional issues.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:41 am to Cruiserhog
Who is to say that it wasn't written about? Are you operating under the assumption that we have access to everything written down in every civilization throughout history?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:43 am to Cruiserhog
Would it be possible for an all powerful God to create a world with the appearance of age?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:44 am to lsufanz
quote:Everyone has to go back to a certain point or authority that cannot be appealed further. First principles cannot appeal to anything else and it's at that point that arguments become circular by necessity. I'm arguing from what I believe is the highest authority. If you'd like to discuss why I believe it to be the highest authority, I'd be happy to do so.
I'm not an atheist and hate to even get into these discussions, but if you're going to have honest discourse you have to understand you're using circular logic to try and prove your point. What's in the bible is true cause it says so in the bible is not going very far in a discussion about science and objective truth.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:47 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
That's nice.
Speak a little more to Ignatius
how about you try to refute the evidence I have presented. That is how a debate works chief.
I imagine you think the Socratic method will lead me into some sort of trap, but I find it is usually the tactic of someone who can't counter.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:48 am to FooManChoo
quote:Not trying to be argumentative, but you have no idea what I THINK.
Here's where you are misunderstanding: you think that my belief is the hinge that makes this door turn.
If all the typical constraints are removed, sure, God or the flying spaghetti monster can do or say anything and us lowly humans just don't understand. The problem with that is when you try to claim with any certainty that the God of whom you speak is any more certain than Allah, the flying spaghetti monster, zenu, wolf spirit or whatever. I respect your right to believe what you wish. I just don't think it wise to try and assert things as fact that can only be accepted with blind faith.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:50 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Romans chapter 1 explains that all people inherently know that God exists to one degree or another because of natural revelation (being able to see some of God's attributes simply by perceiving nature)
Is Christ also self-evident in nature or only the nebulous concept of a Creator/God? What if someone believes there is a Creator/God other than the Christian God?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:53 am to FooManChoo
quote:No offense, but I've been down this road before and again, respect your right to believe what you want to believe. For me, I'm OK with saying I don't know.
If you'd like to discuss why I believe it to be the highest authority, I'd be happy to do so.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:54 am to lsufanz
quote:I apologize for saying that it's what you think. That was an assumption on my part based on the perceived logical flow of your statement, namely that it is my belief that makes God's moral law subjective rather than objective, since not everyone agrees with it. I've heard that argument before and I attributed the same reasoning to you instead of asking first, so I apologize. Perhaps you'd like to clarify what you meant.
Not trying to be argumentative, but you have no idea what I THINK.
quote:I've been very clear and upfront about what I believe. Everything I've said so far is predicated on my faith in the God of the Bible and His son, Jesus Christ. I apologize if I haven't been clear on this, but I will continue to make statements with confidence that align with what I believe to be the truth, regardless of whether or not others believe it, too. You and others are free to argue and discuss it with me as you've been doing and I'll do my best to answer.
If all the typical constraints are removed, sure, God or the flying spaghetti monster can do or say anything and us lowly humans just don't understand. The problem with that is when you try to claim with any certainty that the God of whom you speak is any more certain than Allah, the flying spaghetti monster, zenu, wolf spirit or whatever. I respect your right to believe what you wish. I just don't think it wise to try and assert things as fact that can only be accepted with blind faith.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:56 am to lsufanz
The foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom. – 1 Corinthians 1:25
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:58 am to TigerBait1971
quote:
Rather than using clever and persuasive speeches, I relied only on the power of the Holy Spirit. I did this so you would trust not in human wisdom but in the power of God.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:58 am to moneyg
quote:
That's dumb. None of us get to personally veto legislation because it doesn't match our belief system. Legislation is passed by our representation, who are voted into office by us.
So what?
quote:
If the will of the people (via our representative government) is to enact laws as a result of religion, that's not any bigger of a problem than laws that are a result of any other ideology. The obvious exception to this are constitutional issues.
Pointing your finger at someone else doesn't absolve you of anything.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:59 am to TigerBait1971
quote:Thanks?
The foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom. – 1 Corinthians 1:25
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:00 am to BlackAdam
quote:
how about you try to refute the evidence I have presented.
I'm more than happy to let you do that yourself.
quote:
That is how a debate works chief.
This isn't a debate.
Now, speak a little more to Ignatius.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:01 am to lsufanz
You are most welcome!
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:02 am to FooManChoo
quote:I agree that you've been very clear on your beliefs and typically very respectful in expressing them. I thank you for that, whether I share all of your beliefs or not.
I've been very clear and upfront about what I believe. Everything I've said so far is predicated on my faith in the God of the Bible and His son, Jesus Christ. I apologize if I haven't been clear on this, but I will continue to make statements with confidence that align with what I believe to be the truth, regardless of whether or not others believe it, too.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:05 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I've been very clear and upfront about what I believe. Everything I've said so far is predicated on my faith in the God of the Bible and His son, Jesus Christ. I apologize if I haven't been clear on this, but I will continue to make statements with confidence that align with what I believe to be the truth, regardless of whether or not others believe it, too. You and others are free to argue and discuss it with me as you've been doing and I'll do my best to answer.
No one cares what you believe. The issue is that you try to present those beliefs from a position of authority. You continue to claim you have some objective morality that does not exist. It's not just that you believe it, it's that you don't understand it. You can ignore that all you like, but it won't go away.
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