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re: Stephen Hawking Dead - Hawking Radiation Proves Existence of God
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:57 am to northshorebamaman
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:57 am to northshorebamaman
quote:No. The law of God is written on their hearts (we think of it as our conscience) and they violate it just as we all do. They sin against God and will be judged for it.
So never being exposed to Christianity is their "sin" in this case? That's incredibly fricked up.
"They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them" -Romans 2:15
2
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:02 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
No. The law of God is written on their hearts (we think of it as our conscience) and they violate it just as we all do. They sin against God and will be judged for it.
Theologists can't even be bothered to understand most of what they believe, yet you expect illiterate children in Third World countries to do so because your mythology is "written on their hearts?"
You don't really wonder why many don't believe as you do, do you?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:06 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
No. The law of God is written on their hearts (we think of it as our conscience) and they violate it just as we all do. They sin against God and will be judged for it.
Ok. "Written on their hearts" is a bit too abstract for me so I'll just ask a simple question: Would a tribesman in say, the Amazon, who has never been exposed to Christianity, and lived an otherwise virtuous life be disqualified from Heaven?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:13 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
who has never been exposed to Christianity,
The Bible says that everybody will have a chance to hear the Gospel. This is why the ministry of the missionary is so important.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:13 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:Essentially it means that God built into our basic programming as humans to know right from wrong in a general sense and that we do what we know is wrong and we don't do what we know is right.
Ok. "Written on their hearts" is a bit too abstract for me
quote:Yes, the tribesman would be disqualified from Heaven, to use your words.
so I'll just ask a simple question: Would a tribesman in say, the Amazon, who has never been exposed to Christianity, and lived an otherwise virtuous life be disqualified from Heaven?
God's standard is perfection because He is perfectly holy. If we sin even one time, we disqualify ourselves and we are guilty before God. That's why we need to be "covered with Christ's righteousness". When we have faith in Jesus, we aren't made sinless but we are judged or declared as sinless by God because Jesus is our representative and He judges us according to His righteousness.
The virtuous (but sinful) tribesman is still guilty before God and stands before the judge on His own rather than being judged according to Christ's perfect works. As "good" as the tribesman might be, he still doesn't measure up, because no one does.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:17 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
You don't really wonder why many don't believe as you do, do you?
And you don't wonder why no one can take you seriously? Did you ever come up with any laws legislated with the Christian God in them?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:18 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:The answer is Yes, according to the bible, he would burn in hell, as would the children in the above similar question. Through nothing more than ignorance, bad timing and being born into the wrong family, these innocents will burn in the lake of fire for all eternity because the omnipotent, omniscient God said so, in spite of the love one another tour that he made while on earth.
Would a tribesman in say, the Amazon, who has never been exposed to Christianity, and lived an otherwise virtuous life be disqualified from Heaven?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:19 pm to Lg
quote:When? Depending on missionaries isn't going to cover everyone.
The Bible says that everybody will have a chance to hear the Gospel. This is why the ministry of the missionary is so important.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:19 pm to Lg
quote:
And you don't wonder why no one can take you seriously?
No, I don't, because I don't give a shite how you take me.
quote:
Did you ever come up with any laws legislated with the Christian God in them?
I'm not going to "come up" with anything. This has been explained to you. I can do so again if you find that necessary.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:19 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." - Hebrews 11:1
So you really hope that its true, so much so that you're convinced that it is true (despite having no experiences to back that up).
That's fine. Just stop pretending its 100% set in stone. Also, recognize that anyone with an imagination could imagine up a world in which they have access to objective morality - Christians are no exception.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:20 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Yes, the tribesman would be disqualified from Heaven, to use your words.
Ok, that's your beliefs and I'm not going to argue them but it does make me wonder who the good guy is in the Bible.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:21 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
According to Jesus, it is faith alone in Him that saves a person from Hell. If people haven't heard of Jesus (or the "Messiah" in OT Judaism) then they can't trust in His sacrifice as a propitiation for their sins and therefore they are still under the wrath of God for their sins. I imagine their suffering will be less than those who have heard the Gospel and have rejected it, though. Jesus gives such a warning to those who rejected Him.
A person who hasn't heard the law will be held accountable and suffer for transgressing that law? What constitutes sin in this case?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:21 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Because of the word "objective". "Anyone else" implies that literally anyone can have an objective source for morality when that's not true as evidence by the fact that so many reject anything but what exists in the natural, material universe which has no fundamental moral force or standard.
You misunderstand. Anyone can. I can kiss a guy, but as a heterosexual male I choose not to. A materialist could imagine up bullshite, but as a materialist they tend to stick to what can be proven.
Given the latitude Christians grant themselves, literally anyone could imagine up a world where they have access to objective morality. And they'd be in the same boat. They'd have to assert that its true, they'd have to point at how horrible the world would be if it weren't (it wouldn't), and they'd have no evidence to back up their claim.
This post was edited on 3/15/18 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:22 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
There is no objective basis to
Human objectivity is impossible.
quote:
to judge what is evil without God
Evil is a value judgment that is made up by People based on their own associations. Nothing is inherently evil and nothing is inherently good
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:26 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Ok, that's your beliefs and I'm not going to argue them but it does make me wonder who the good guy is in the Bible.
There is no good guy in the Bible. It's mythological authority.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:30 pm to lsufanz
quote:...and their own sinfulness. Let's not forget that. God doesn't punish people for merely existing. They are punished for their sins. Without Jesus, they are no way to escape the punishment that they deserve.
Through nothing more than ignorance, bad timing and being born into the wrong family, these innocents will burn in the lake of fire for all eternity because the omnipotent, omniscient God said so, in spite of the love one another tour that he made while on earth.
And if God didn't punish sin, He would not be holy and He would be an unjust judge. What you and others are doing when saying things like this is that God should excuse His creation's disobedience and rebellion because we think he should. It's like the family of the child molester pleading for the judge to let him off because he's an otherwise good boy. If the judge actually let him off even though he was guilty, he would be unjust.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:31 pm to Ebbandflow
quote:That's convenient because if I got to decide, I'd say throwing ignorant children in an eternal lake of fire is Evil!
Evil is a value judgment that is made up by People based on their own associations. Nothing is inherently evil and nothing is inherently good
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:32 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Ok, that's your beliefs and I'm not going to argue them but it does make me wonder who the good guy is in the Bible.
This is one of the most fun questions to pose with regards to critiques of Christianity.
How do you know God is the good guy? Because you think he acts good? He supposedly wrote the law (morality) into our hearts so we'd know right from wrong. So the only way we can judge whether or not God is good is an ability that God crafted and granted to us?
If God were bad, surely he'd wire us incorrectly, so that we'd think he's the good guy and Satan is the bad guy. And honestly, seeing all the people God himself killed, ordered others to kill, or who's laws he demanded be followed resulted in the deaths of others (Hell, a guy was stoned for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week - for example) and comparing that to the body count of Satan... Perhaps we have it backwards...
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:34 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Also, recognize that anyone with an imagination could imagine up a world in which they have access to objective morality
Without a standard that is not human, that's all morality is. Whatever you imagine it to be.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:35 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
And if God didn't punish sin, He would not be holy and He would be an unjust judge
Good luck arguing infinite punishment for finite crimes. Oh, and also blood sacrifices and scapegoating.
And if Jesus really did take the punishment for us, why isn't he still in Hell?
This post was edited on 3/15/18 at 12:35 pm
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