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Started By
Message
re: Shouldn’t “preemptive’ pardons be unconstitutional?
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:22 am to Bard
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:22 am to Bard
quote:
I'm not disagreeing with your assessment, I think it's probably (and unfortunately) accurate as this seems to be legal ground never covered
If my recollection of high school history is accurate, we had a President named Ford who preemptively pardoned a President named Nixon. To my knowledge no legal scholar ever seriously considered it worth filing a legal challenge against it.
Am I overlooking any key distinctions between that and this?
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:23 am to SDVTiger
quote:
Yup every single time. His TDS is unreal
A MAGA-type melting doesn't mean me pointing out the flaws in his comments are partisan.
Also, by almost default, it's always going to be a MAGA-type on here
Do you suffer from TDS when you mock the same melting by the same people when you call them "conservatives"?
This post was edited on 1/20/25 at 8:24 am
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:30 am to SlowFlowPro
How broad are these pardons? With the way some lawyers can weasel facets of a matter is it possible some of these folks could be prosecuted on actions tangential to the issues covered by the pardons?
All of these people can now be forced to testify under oath with no 5th amendment protections, correct?
All of these people can now be forced to testify under oath with no 5th amendment protections, correct?
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:31 am to Willie Stroker
quote:
Am I overlooking any key distinctions between that and this?
As I mentioned in my previous post, Nixon’s charges were “obvious”, whereas Hunter’s aren’t as clear. It’s no guarantee that the pardon would be struck down, but it’s at least a reasonable basis for a challenge.
This post was edited on 1/20/25 at 8:32 am
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:31 am to Jake88
quote:
All of these people can now be forced to testify under oath with no 5th amendment protections, correct?
That depends. Are any of the potential crimes potentially state crimes? If so, they can still plead the 5th.
quote:
How broad are these pardons?
I haven't read them, but I'm assuming absolute
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:32 am to SlowFlowPro
Preempting charges, not crimes you miserable twat
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:32 am to Timeoday
quote:
At least Biden directly pointed the finger at those who he knows committed crimes.
Yup.
Turn them over to The Hague.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:33 am to SlowFlowPro
Would it be possible to challenge the pardons based on Biden’s mental state? There’s plenty of evidence to challenge whether he knew what he was signing.
This post was edited on 1/20/25 at 8:34 am
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:34 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I haven't read them, but I'm assuming absolute
Might be worthwhile bringing the Jan 6 committee in and asking them if any were party to sexual assault or harassment claims that may have been paid off.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:35 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Preempting charges, not crimes you miserable twat
An irrelevant distinction I covered in my original post.
Reading is hard, I know.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:35 am to Jimmy Russel
quote:
Would it be possible to challenge the pardons based on Biden’s mental state?
He was deemed unfit to stand trial. He should also be unfit to dismiss a trial.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:36 am to Rebel
quote:
He was deemed unfit to stand trial. He should also be unfit to dismiss a trial.
We have a specified process for that in the Constitution. Until that process is engaged, there isn't really a legal argument for this.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:38 am to RollTide1987
Ford was not a co-conspirator in Nixon’s crimes.
Biden and the entire Democrat party are co-conspirators with these people he just pardoned in their crimes. This is apples and oranges and I do not think for one second the constitution protects this type of behavior.
Biden and the entire Democrat party are co-conspirators with these people he just pardoned in their crimes. This is apples and oranges and I do not think for one second the constitution protects this type of behavior.
This post was edited on 1/20/25 at 8:38 am
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:40 am to Geekboy
At the least, the potentially criminal action should be named. Blanket pardons bother me more than preemptive pardons.
This post was edited on 1/20/25 at 8:41 am
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:40 am to Willie Stroker
quote:
If my recollection of high school history is accurate, we had a President named Ford who preemptively pardoned a President named Nixon. To my knowledge no legal scholar ever seriously considered it worth filing a legal challenge against it.
Am I overlooking any key distinctions between that and this?
Nixon was under active investigation (his Impeachment hearing was still going on when he resigned and when Ford pardoned him).
Some of the pardons Joe approved of aren't for any specific crime nor investigation, but rather to stop any potential investigation from ever starting in the first place. LINK
quote:
I believe in the rule of law, and I am optimistic that the strength of our legal institutions will ultimately prevail over politics. But these are exceptional circumstances, and I cannot in good conscience do nothing. Baseless and politically motivated investigations wreak havoc on the lives, safety, and financial security of targeted individuals and their families. Even when individuals have done nothing wrong—and in fact have done the right thing—and will ultimately be exonerated, the mere fact of being investigated or prosecuted can irreparably damage reputations and finances.
That is why I am exercising my authority under the Constitution to pardon General Mark A. Milley, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the Members of Congress and staff who served on the Select Committee, and the U.S. Capitol and D.C. Metropolitan police officers who testified before the Select Committee. The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense.
That's a dangerous expanse of the pardon power. If this expanse is allowed, the use of it will likely increase over time. Imagine it becoming commonplace for an outgoing President to pardon all members of their staff for anything done while being on the staff, to the point where no staff member could ever be investigated for anything. That's pretty much where this is headed.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:41 am to Scruffy
quote:He's issuing pardons today, is my guess. The J6 political prisoners are about to be freed, and rightfully so!!
In four years, if Trump performs any pardons at all, he will be the first to create a thread about it.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:43 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
But the (purported/alleged) crime has happened.
But it's even more than that, Biden's pardon even reads that it wasn't issued because a crime was possibly committed (the actual pardon reads to the contrary, saying the pardon shouldn't be used to assume their guilt in any crime), but that it was issues to keep any investigation of any of these people (whether as named individuals or being within a named group) from ever happening in the first place.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:43 am to momentoftruth87
quote:
He offers discount divorces i shite you not.
Is it because he spends more time regurgitating bullshite on here than he does doing his actual job?
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:That means any federal crime they may have committed even unrelated to, say, J6 for those committee members or COVID for Fauci? If Liz Cheney had committed some federal crime completely unrelated to her opposition actions vs Trump, she's pardoned?
I haven't read them, but I'm assuming absolute
Posted on 1/20/25 at 8:46 am to Rebel
quote:THIS!!!
He was deemed unfit to stand trial. He should also be unfit to dismiss a trial.
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