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Message
re: Senators Request Trump Action on Ethanol
Posted on 10/26/17 at 2:36 pm to austintigerdad
Posted on 10/26/17 at 2:36 pm to austintigerdad
Ethanol is one of the biggest lies humankind has ever created.
0
Posted on 10/26/17 at 2:38 pm to GumboPot
quote:
On a serious note... Methanol is where it is at if the U.S wants to move to a cleaner, much more cost effective way to supplement gasoline.
Actually butanol is the way to go. Production costs would need to come down, but it's a clean, low CO2, transportable, stable fuel that can be produced from plants. Has much higher MPG than ethanol.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 2:45 pm to GumboPot
Little to none actually. Europe is tinkering with the idea more so than the U.S. It is approved here to blend up to 5%, but there is such a hard on for ethanol here that it is not as common of a practice. Much more common in marine fuel applications though.
The RVP is a bit higher in methanol, but it still suffices at concentrations less than 15%.
The RVP is a bit higher in methanol, but it still suffices at concentrations less than 15%.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 2:46 pm to fjlee90
Just a little industry secret here. Well something that the public does not know about.
When gasoline and ethanol are blended there is an energy per unit volume reduction. In other words you are going to get less gas millage from ethanol blended gasoline versus pure gasoline. I think everyone knows this.
Here's the little secret. When ethanol and gasoline are mixed there is a net increase in volume. For example, a mixture of one hundred gallons of ethanol added to 900 gallons of gasoline will add up to more than 1000 gallons of blended fuel. IIRC the final volume would be about 1000.25 gallons. I know a quarter of a gallon doesn't seem like a lot however for blenders that run on very low margins but very high volumes (100s of millions of bbls per year) you can make some very nice executive bonuses at the end of the year. Million of dollars in fact.
When gasoline and ethanol are blended there is an energy per unit volume reduction. In other words you are going to get less gas millage from ethanol blended gasoline versus pure gasoline. I think everyone knows this.
Here's the little secret. When ethanol and gasoline are mixed there is a net increase in volume. For example, a mixture of one hundred gallons of ethanol added to 900 gallons of gasoline will add up to more than 1000 gallons of blended fuel. IIRC the final volume would be about 1000.25 gallons. I know a quarter of a gallon doesn't seem like a lot however for blenders that run on very low margins but very high volumes (100s of millions of bbls per year) you can make some very nice executive bonuses at the end of the year. Million of dollars in fact.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 2:50 pm to fjlee90
Hell, we should just blend nitro methane. Everyone's car would run fantastic. 
Posted on 10/26/17 at 2:52 pm to GumboPot
I'm looking into starting a company extracting methanol and stillingia oil from invasive tallow trees. 1 acre of tallow seeds yields 1,200 gallons of oil.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 2:56 pm to GumboPot
quote:
GumboPot
This guy gets it
Posted on 10/26/17 at 2:59 pm to Jeff Goldblum
quote:
Actually butanol is the way to go. Production costs would need to come down, but it's a clean, low CO2, transportable, stable fuel that can be produced from plants. Has much higher MPG than ethanol.
Butanol is a better fuel source than ethanol. However, as I understand it the plant source saccharification process is pretty expensive (for the microorganisms...a bacteria in the genius Clostridium that produce butanol). That's the drawback as I understand it.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 3:03 pm to texag7
quote:
I'm looking into starting a company extracting methanol and stillingia oil from invasive tallow trees. 1 acre of tallow seeds yields 1,200 gallons of oil.
Awesome idea. Good luck.
Didn't know about stillingia oil until now. Thanks.
Posted on 10/27/17 at 7:34 am to austintigerdad
Obama administration was set to raise ethanol limit to 15%. It really screws up your engine and boaters especially hate it. Back in the day it tore up rubber hoses and fuel lines.
The politicians don't get it...Corn is for eating!
The politicians don't get it...Corn is for eating!
Posted on 10/27/17 at 7:48 am to Sentrius
quote:
Ethanol needs to the way of the dodo bird. It's made gas more expensive, burns gas faster, fricks up our vehicle's engines, and costs more money to produce than pure gas. frick the welfare queens in Iowa that pushed their bullshite on the rest of us and frick George Bush for caving to them.
In fairness, Sent...the whole Ethanol thing began as an 'America First' policy. And for independence from ME Oil, as things were before the Fracking breakout.
A lot invested in Ethanol now; we don't want to harm Farmers, so there needs to be a weaning process, perhaps with International Markets being encouraged (subsidized partially) by our Government. Which is what other Governments do.
Mud on the wall. But I know enough not to put ethanol in my small engines or boat outboard.
Posted on 10/27/17 at 8:03 am to austintigerdad
quote:
All things being equal, I'd rather pay corn farmers than those Middle Eastern fuggers who financed 9/11.
We don't need the ME for oil brah
And we don't need corn in our gas
Posted on 10/27/17 at 8:08 am to austintigerdad
Lib logic: Produce something flawed...then instead of doing away with it...just force Americans to spend more money.
Posted on 10/27/17 at 8:21 am to Fireman17
quote:
I really wish ethanol free did not cost so much it makes cars run so much better.
Supply and demand my friend. Get rid of the mandated alcohol and the real stuff will drop in price.
Posted on 10/27/17 at 8:49 am to austintigerdad
quote:
All things being equal, I'd rather pay corn farmers than those Middle Eastern fuggers who financed 9/11.
However it seems like a questionable strategy to subsidize a food source to get it sucked into your energy supply.
1. We get minimal oil from the Middle East.
2. Vehicles running on ethanol-enhanced gasoline get 15%-27% less MPG (depending on ethanol content) due to ethanol's lower energy content.
3. Ethanol causes damage to your engine that pure gasoline does not (corrosion from the alcohol, water accumulation in the fuel).
4. While ethanol use reduces CO2, it increases ground-level ozone (O3).
While the bill Bush II pushed through Congress has helped the US farmer stay afloat (and even prosper), the fact that it's due to a mandate means it's a house of cards and it effects most (if not all) agriculture.
My family has farmed for generations and we currently benefit from the ethanol bill. I have "skin in the game" as it were. With that said, I want the ethanol mandate repealed.
If Congress wants to protect the American farmer (and to an extent we should, I mean... if you enjoy being able to eat) then come up with some other plan that isn't equivalent to pissing on the legs of everyone and telling them it's just raining.
Posted on 10/27/17 at 8:51 am to austintigerdad
That stuff is horrible in marine engines.
Posted on 10/27/17 at 8:53 am to Lutcher Lad
quote:
Obama administration was set to raise ethanol limit to 15%.
Yep. Service department manager at the Toyota place I trade with told me my 2003 Tundra is engineered to run with up to 12% ethanol but not 15%. Same thing with my wife's 2008 4Runner. Told me this about four years ago. Luckily some stations locally starting selling corn free gas.
Posted on 10/27/17 at 9:41 am to Lutcher Lad
Ethanol is a legitimate market that the world is demanding. Exports have skyrocketed the past few years with countries in SAM/Asia/India depending on cheap ethanol to meet their growing economies' fuel demand.
Federal subsidies went away years ago. And guess what, those profitable in the ethanol industry were ecstatic. Truth was there were too many "mom and pop" plants that were in production who could not survive without those subsidies. Those plants are now closed or were taken over by those who had the resources to run efficiently.
People confuse the subsidies that used to exist with the ethanol mandate (RFS). The mandate still exists, and it's a meaningless piece of paper that makes green earthers feel good. If the mandate went away tomorrow, the ethanol market would have a little disruption, then return to status quo. The worldwide demand for ethanol exceeds the mandate. That little ethanol plant on the edge of town isn't selling to the local 7-11 (most of that's imported from SAM), all of its ethanol is going out on trains to be loaded onto barges. Don't like ethanol, don't buy it. But it's not going anywhere
Federal subsidies went away years ago. And guess what, those profitable in the ethanol industry were ecstatic. Truth was there were too many "mom and pop" plants that were in production who could not survive without those subsidies. Those plants are now closed or were taken over by those who had the resources to run efficiently.
People confuse the subsidies that used to exist with the ethanol mandate (RFS). The mandate still exists, and it's a meaningless piece of paper that makes green earthers feel good. If the mandate went away tomorrow, the ethanol market would have a little disruption, then return to status quo. The worldwide demand for ethanol exceeds the mandate. That little ethanol plant on the edge of town isn't selling to the local 7-11 (most of that's imported from SAM), all of its ethanol is going out on trains to be loaded onto barges. Don't like ethanol, don't buy it. But it's not going anywhere
Posted on 10/27/17 at 9:44 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:This.
Personally, I liked it better when we were just paying corn farmers to grow food.
Ethanol is a stupid product on just about every level.
Posted on 10/27/17 at 9:45 am to austintigerdad
quote:
Correct. Ethanol fricked up my yard equipment until I starting using this.
Want to know something better than Sta-Bil for everything except your vehcile? Non-ethanol gas.
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