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Started By
Message
re: Robert’s insist that tariffs are a tax on the American people, and a tax needs to come
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You keep repeating this after I've told you multiple times that it was not a relevant or impactful argument in that case.
quote:
the Secretary of Education may waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (HEA), as the Secretary deems necessary in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.
0
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:27 am to FizzyPop
quote:
FizzyPop
Repeatedly defining a "leftist" as anyone who disagrees with you is not helping your standing.
Are you for tariffs?
If so, then you are the leftist on this issue.
"Left" or "right" refers to the policies you support. Not whether you are agreeing with Trump or not.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:28 am to Padme
Roberts’ reasoning seems to be that if something generates revenue for the government, it qualifies as a tax (e.g., tariffs or penalties), and under the Constitution, the authority to impose taxes rests with Congress. A fee, by contrast, is meant to cover the cost of a specific government-provided service (like paying for parking at a national park). Both sides acknowledge that Congress has delegated limited tariff authority to the president, but the Trump administration has been operating outside those established boundaries.
Before Trump, there was broad agreement across the political and economic spectrum that tariffs are, in effect, taxes — and that they function economically as such.
Before Trump, there was broad agreement across the political and economic spectrum that tariffs are, in effect, taxes — and that they function economically as such.
This post was edited on 11/6/25 at 8:30 am
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:28 am to FizzyPop
quote:
I feel sorry for you, but I appreciate getting an insight into how a Leftist brain works.
What?
quote:
You somehow convinced yourself that the only time the "No Tax on anything related to ACA" issue came up was at oral arguments in front of Scotus
No. That's not what I said.
Let me remind you, you said this:
quote:
he signed it into law where it explicitly said the ACA subsidies, premiums, individual, employer and Cadilac plan surcharges were 100% not a tax.
You referenced the text EXPLICITLY stating it was "100% not a tax"
I respond
quote:
There is no text within the statute reflecting your words above.
And you agree, saying
quote:
No shite there's nothing in the statute
So, mate, what the frick? Does the statute EXPLICITLY state it is not a tax or is there no text within the statute saying its not a tax? You've made 2 completely conflicting arguments in succession.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:29 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Cancellation of debt is a permanent action. Emergency can not reasonably be presumed as permanent. Therefore cancellation across the board was not allowed.
I ask, again.
quote:
Where in there is the temporary argument you're making?
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:29 am to hogcard1964
quote:
They're not doing to rule against tarriffs
You think?
I think they will.
I think they'll punch Trump in the ballz on this one. Probably 7-2.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:30 am to Padme
Obama care was passed through Congress. Remember "Deem and Pass"
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:30 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
Repeatedly defining a "leftist" as anyone who disagrees with you is not helping your standing.
You posted a link to Ashlen who is a flaming leftist
You clearly follow her
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:30 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
I think they'll punch Trump in the ballz on this one. Probably 7-2.
I'm curious how Thomas votes. He's been rejecting his textualist roots lately towards what appears to be partisanship. If he sides with the admin I think it will be safe to say he's no longer a textualist.
If he maintains his principles, I could see 9-0
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I believe its that the Executive cannot create a tax, and the Trump admin created tariffs.
The issue here is whether Congress granted the President the power to tariff in certain situations (emergencies).
The Executive is not claiming it can tax without legislation giving it the power to do so.
So, it seems to me either:
A. - Roberts is exploring the idea that Congress can never give the President the power that Trump is arguing that Congress gave the President; or
B. that the President's argument that the IEEPA gives the President the power to "regulate importation and exportation" necessarily leads to the conclusion that the IEEPA is unconstitutional because the Constitution expressly forbids a tax on exports. To put another way: if the power to regulate means the power to tax then that power cannot constitutionally be granted because the law allows the power to regulate "exportation."; or
C. Something else I am missing.
I do not think Roberts believes A - that is a fairly radical stance, and goes against quite a lot of precedent. So I am thinking it must be B or C
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:31 am to IMSA_Fan
quote:
Robert’s logic seems to be if something is revenue generating for the gov it is a tax (e.g., tariffs & penalties) and that ownership of revenue generating activities (e.g., taxes) is held by the congress per the constitution. Something is a “fee” if it covers the cost of government provided service (e.g., paying for parking at national parks). Both sides concede that Congress has ceded limited power to tariff to the Presidency. However, the Trump admin is not operating within those guardrails.
This is the most elegant and correct summation of the issue that I have seen here. Good job.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:32 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Declarations of War in Dec 1941 were Nuclear Weapons authorized? Where were they authorized subsequently, prior to Aug 6, 1945 (Hiroshima)?
Seeing as the bomb wasn’t a thing on Dec. 11 1941 i don’t get your point
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:32 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
is not helping your standing.
My standing is just fine with presenting facts. Lefties on this board will always pivot away from facts. Wake up junior.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:33 am to PurpleCrush
quote:
Name an economist thats says tarrifs are not a tax? They are
Not saying I agree, but the argument is that they are fees imposed on foreign entities.
Widget XYZ normally sells for $10,000. The United States imposes a 10 percent tariff of $1,000. The manufacturer absorbs the tariff and still sells the item for $10,000. Was it a tax? If so, who was it a tax on?
In the same scenario, the manufacturer pays the tariff and passes on either all or part of the $1,000. That could be considered an import fee, and a corresponding price increase. Not a tax.
There are all kinds of fees imposed on domestic and foreign entities without congressional approval, that are not considered taxes. There are also fees and expenses imposed on American citizens, and foreign visitors, that are not considered taxes.
The State Department can raise the fee to get a passport without congressional approval. Is that a tax?
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:34 am to JimEverett
quote:
The issue here is whether Congress granted the President the power to tariff in certain situations (emergencies).
It's more specifically if the IEEPA authorized the President the authority to enact tariffs, when the statute never explicitly states anything about tariffs.
The President enacted a tariff from this legislation, which may have created a tax (the tariff) without clear Congressional authorization. The admin is arguing the tariff isn't a tax so it won't be bound by as strict of Constitutional interpretation.
quote:
Roberts is exploring the idea that Congress can never give the President the power that Trump is arguing that Congress gave the President;
NEVER? No. Just not via the IEEPA.
quote:
that the President's argument that the IEEPA gives the President the power to "regulate importation and exportation" necessarily leads to the conclusion that the IEEPA is unconstitutional because the Constitution expressly forbids a tax on exports.
No. There are all sorts of authority granted to the President via the IEEPA that in no way reflect a tax. The admin basically created that authority out of thin air, without any direct textual support.
They're relying on implications and broad authorities, not the text itself.
If the IEEPA specifically authorized tariffs, this case never gets this far.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:35 am to JimEverett
I mean to add:
If Roberts or anyone else believes B above then that does not mean they believe the IEEPA is unconstitutional. It means they do not believe the power granted to the President to "regulate" includes the power to tax (tariff).
If Roberts or anyone else believes B above then that does not mean they believe the IEEPA is unconstitutional. It means they do not believe the power granted to the President to "regulate" includes the power to tax (tariff).
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:35 am to Demonbengal
quote:
how do you refund all the companies who have paid these tariffs?
What companies??? The refund is owed to the American people…
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:35 am to FizzyPop
quote:
My standing is just fine with presenting facts.
Conflicting facts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:35 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:What are you talking about? In the case of a 100 Years War, waiver could be de facto permanent.
Where in there is the temporary argument you're making?
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:36 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
There are all kinds of fees imposed on domestic and foreign entities without congressional approval,
Which?
I doubt this is true.
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