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Message

Reason.com - What Is a 'Well Regulated Militia,' Anyway?
Posted on 6/13/22 at 12:24 am
Posted on 6/13/22 at 12:24 am
An excellent article on the historical significance of the 2nd Amendment.
Here is some advice for our lawmakers;
"Before you remove a fence, understand why it was put up in the first place."
Here is some advice for our lawmakers;
"Before you remove a fence, understand why it was put up in the first place."
quote:LINK
The Founders liked militias, but they also liked an armed citizenry. To them, the two ideas were inseparable.
Gun control advocates love to hate District of Columbia v. Heller, the 2008 case in which the Supreme Court recognized that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to arms. They may be protesting too much. Federal courts in the decade since have found many restrictions on the right to own and use weapons perfectly congruent with that decision. Heller merely says the government can't enforce laws that prevent (most) Americans from possessing commonly used weapons in their homes for self-defense.
Courts have found that Heller does not preclude laws that prohibit anyone younger than 21 from buying guns in retail stores; laws that bar people who committed a single nonviolent felony from ever owning a gun; laws that severely restrict the ability to carry a gun outside the home; laws that ban commonly owned magazines of a certain capacity; or laws that require handguns to incorporate untested, expensive, and unreliable "microstamping" technology. The Supreme Court so far has avoided taking up any of those questions.
Still, many activists and legal scholars, along with at least two of the Supreme Court justices who dissented in Heller, believe the Second Amendment, properly construed, never guaranteed an individual right at all, or at least not one related to personal self-defense in the home.
Their argument is based on that amendment's reference to "a well regulated militia," which they define as a military force organized and supervised by the government. Outside a well-regulated militia, they suggest, the Second Amendment has no practical effect a lawmaker need respect. Some gun control advocates also argue that the descriptor well regulated implies that the government has wide latitude to decide who may have which weapons under what circumstances. But as the Supreme Court correctly concluded in Heller, these arguments are inconsistent with the text and context of the Second Amendment.
The structure of the Second Amendment has invited decades of dueling interpretations. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," it says, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The part of the amendment that could be its own stand-alone sentence—the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed—is known as the "operative clause." The well regulated Militia part—the prefatory clause—is understood by enthusiastic gun regulators as defining the only reason for preserving the right to keep and bear arms (as opposed to one of the reasons). Anyone who is not a member of a well-regulated militia would have no such right.
The late Justice Antonin Scalia, who wrote the majority opinion in Heller, thought it made no sense to read the prefatory clause that way, because that would essentially nullify the direct and clear meaning of the operative clause. While the prefatory clause could give insight into some of the specifics of how to apply the operative clause, he argued, it could not make the right to arms contingent on militia service.
Scalia pointed out that the amendment refers to "the right of the people." When that language is used elsewhere in the Bill of Rights—in the First and Fourth Amendments, for example—it plainly means a right that belongs to every individual, as opposed to a collective with special properties, such as a militia. A prefatory clause mentioning a purpose, Scalia argued, is not sufficient to overwhelm the commonsense and contextual meaning of a right guaranteed to everyone. Furthermore, he said, contemporaneous usage makes it clear that the phrase bear arms cannot be restricted to a military context, as Justice John Paul Stevens suggested it should be in his dissent.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 12:28 am to Wolfhound45
I don’t see a problem with militias. Some would argue that’s national guard, but they fall under governor.
If gays can take kids into a bar for pride month, why can’t baws get together and ensure they are ready?
If gays can take kids into a bar for pride month, why can’t baws get together and ensure they are ready?
Posted on 6/13/22 at 12:33 am to momentoftruth87
quote:
I don’t see a problem with militias.

Posted on 6/13/22 at 1:24 am to Wolfhound45
If the British Invades Washington. Texas could get activated and quickly trained for the march out there.
Or a Tyrannical Government.
Don't think that Cuba is going to invade. They may send militia... hummm....
Or a Tyrannical Government.
Don't think that Cuba is going to invade. They may send militia... hummm....
Posted on 6/13/22 at 5:41 am to Wolfhound45
the term meant "all able bodied men 17-45".
debating the current meaning of changed language does not change the original intent.
debating the current meaning of changed language does not change the original intent.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 6:54 am to Wolfhound45
The founders let individuals have canons because of course that is included in the second amendment. But todays leaders don’t want us to have anything. They’ll even lie about the canon part to try and convince us.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 6:58 am to Wolfhound45
it is really very simple
"Well regulated militia" is merely a statement of observation.
"shall not be infringed" is a comandment.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 7:28 am to Wolfhound45
In the time of the Revolutionary War almost all of the soldiers fighting for independence were ordinary citizens who were called to action, picked up their guns, and joined the fight. The Founding Fathers envisioned a time when it might be necessary to do it again as they could not have foreseen our current military industrial complex. The Second amendment was written so that the government could not disarm citizens, leaving them unable to respond to a situation such as the rise of a dictator.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 7:43 am to momentoftruth87
quote:
Some would argue that’s national guard, but they fall under governor.
That's not what was intended. We are all the militia. Every capable fighting individual. The militia is just the pool of capable fighting individuals.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 7:48 am to TrueTiger
quote:
"Well regulated militia" is merely a statement of observation.
"shall not be infringed" is a comandment.
Any 8th grade English student can understand this - I wonder why Democrats have a problem with it??
Posted on 6/13/22 at 7:55 am to LRB1967
quote:/thread
In the time of the Revolutionary War almost all of the soldiers fighting for independence were ordinary citizens who were called to action, picked up their guns, and joined the fight.
We have permitted a professional military and constabulary to take on the roles that we held from the founding of our Nation. And we have the natural outcome of surrendering these responsibilities to the State.
Keep yourself armed. Period.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 7:56 am to Wolfhound45
It is because the government is allowed a militia, therefore the people are allowed to keep arms to protect against that government.
Penn and Teller do a pretty good explanation.
Penn and Teller do a pretty good explanation.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 8:05 am to Wolfhound45
From Constitution.org:
The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.
The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 8:51 am to Wolfhound45
That has nothing to do with the founder's original intent of the word militia. That is politicians trying to make sure the militia the founders had in mind (one to prevent - with force if necessary - central government overreach).
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:24 am to Oswald
quote:Correct. This clock, for example, did not require a permit from the government for purchase.
Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:28 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:Respectfully disagree. It is an acknowledgement in US code that all responsible citizens are to participate in the common defense. And sorry, but that was the original understanding of the Founding Fathers. It has been perverted over the years to transfer power to a central government (whether at the federal, state or local level) that they are responsible for our defense. And that is not true. We the people are.
That has nothing to do with the founder's original intent of the word militia.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:40 am to Wolfhound45
The militia is every baw who knows, or can be taught, which end to point at the blue helmets.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:42 am to Wolfhound45
All true, but not really relevant to interpreting the 2nd Amendment.
What you are saying is the equivalent of explaining why we have three branches of government, including a legislative branch distinct from the executive.
It does little to explain why we have a bicameral legislature, with different term lengths and with one branch apportioned equally by state and the other branch apportioned by population.
Armed citizens good = we need a legislature
vs
Exact language of 2A = specific structure of Congress
What you are saying is the equivalent of explaining why we have three branches of government, including a legislative branch distinct from the executive.
It does little to explain why we have a bicameral legislature, with different term lengths and with one branch apportioned equally by state and the other branch apportioned by population.
Armed citizens good = we need a legislature
vs
Exact language of 2A = specific structure of Congress
This post was edited on 6/13/22 at 9:49 am
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:26 am to Wolfhound45
Then I mis-read the statute. I read it as the militia is to be under the command of the central government.
Our founder's intent was for, what would be considered today a radically independent, militia of citizens who are not under the command of the government.
Our founder's intent was for, what would be considered today a radically independent, militia of citizens who are not under the command of the government.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:39 am to LRB1967
quote:
In the time of the Revolutionary War almost all of the soldiers fighting for independence were ordinary citizens who were called to action, picked up their guns, and joined the fight. The Founding Fathers envisioned a time when it might be necessary to do it again as they could not have foreseen our current military industrial complex. The Second amendment was written so that the government could not disarm citizens, leaving them unable to respond to a situation such as the rise of a dictator.
This is one of the best explanations I have seen! Thank you sir!
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