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Started By
Message
re: Raleigh Man Faces Financial Ruin After Multimillion-Dollar Home Stolen Using False Deed
Posted on 9/20/24 at 6:59 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 9/20/24 at 6:59 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
We are talking about defrauding good people's LIFE SAVINGS !!!!
This person will not lose his house. It will be straightened out in court and the person committing fraud will go to prison.
Who is going to pay for the extra training you want to put on the clerks in the clerk’s office? I saw you mention earlier that the seller should be there to verify ID. What if the seller is out of state or out of the country? How does that work? I understand you being angry, but there isn’t a magic bullet here. This is stupid crime and she will win stupid prizes.
2
Posted on 9/20/24 at 7:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Yes and no.
If someone is willing to commit fraud, no system can stop them every time. Take your ID example. They'd just make a fake ID (like the fake LLC rmc mentioned earlier).
If a title search is included, that will come out in virtually every instance. One of the things required of any LLC or other corporation are the articles of incorporation, which can be easily checked.
A forger would need a copy of the originals to pull that off.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:18 am to LSU2ALA
quote:Just like it does in a normal sale or other financial transactions. Lawyers/Title Research Companies/Identification/Verification
What if the seller is out of state or out of the country? How does that work?
quote:
Who is going to pay for the extra training you want to put on the clerks in the clerk’s office?
What is a notary's responsibility when notarizing a document?
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
When a person is willing to commit fraud, the system doesn't have an ability to react swiftly. Creating that mechanism potentially would grind the legitimate system to a halt.
Absolute BS.
It would take 15 minutes to put in place a new system that would prevent this from happening along with massive criminal charges to punish anyone willing to try it.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:23 am to LSU2ALA
quote:
It will be straightened out in court and the person committing fraud will go to prison.
Who is going to pay for the extra training you want to put on the clerks in the clerk’s office?
Who's going to pay the cost for this man of him having to straighten out this mess?
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:26 am to llfshoals
quote:
One of the things required of any LLC or other corporation are the articles of incorporation, which can be easily checked.
But in his example it's a real LLC just in the wrong state (or at least I think that's what he's describing).
So Co LLC in TX owns the property
The fraudsters incorporate Co LLC in LA, and then sign the paperwork as if they're the TX Co LLC. They can even include the same address/agent information as the TX Co LLC when incorporated in LA.
They can get a business account at a bank with the LA company to deposit/withdraw the funds. If they want to cover their tracks, they can use fake ID documents to cover the identities of the fraudulent owners. The only step this would really be necessary would be at the bank (you form the companies online).
They can present the LA AOC if requested.
Any typical verification process can be thwarted with fraud, if the fraudster is bold enough and willing to risk going to big boy jail.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:26 am to NC_Tigah
He has a mortgage on the property. The lending institution is the owner and they got lots of lawyers and leverage to make this go away. They can make Mr. Scammer go to jail for fraud. Possession is nine tenths of the law. Or just have Vito pay the scammer a visit at 3AM in the morning and explain a few things to him with a baseball bat. 
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:26 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
What is a notary's responsibility when notarizing a document?
Clerks are not notaries and they don't notarize documents.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:27 am to tide06
quote:
It would take 15 minutes to put in place a new system that would prevent this from happening
Describe the system.
Then describe the costs.
quote:
along with massive criminal charges to punish anyone willing to try it.
Already exists. No need to add more.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:35 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Again it will have to pass the checks in the title search for chain of ownership. Which isn’t likely. Possible if the scammers have gone to that much effort in their research, but none of them do. They’re out for quick and easy.
The fraudsters incorporate Co LLC in LA, and then sign the paperwork as if they're the TX Co LLC. They can even include the same address/agent information as the TX Co LLC when incorporated in LA.
quote:That is true, but in a transaction where checks are done on chain of ownership are done, it’s very unlikely. Now if the buyer is stupid enough to waive the title work, the scammer doesn’t even have to work that hard.
Any typical verification process can be thwarted with fraud, if the fraudster is bold enough and willing to risk going to big boy jail.
Scammers rely on the stupid, but since the average person these days is dumber than a brick they’re pretty successful.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:38 am to llfshoals
quote:
Again it will have to pass the checks in the title search for chain of ownership.
These people aren't dealing in consumer-type sales.
Plenty of B2B sales of real/immovable property occur informally.
quote:
Possible if the scammers have gone to that much effort in their research,
It's just forming a new/fake company. It's not that much effort.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:41 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Describe the system.
Simply establishing an emergency fraud claim process mandating a hearing within 7 days of a fraud claim at a county court and ensuring that once the claim is made no sales or transactions can be made on the property until the hearing is completed would prevent the catastrophic issues going on in this NC case.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Family or friend transactions sure. Multi-million dollar (apparently advertised) properties not so much.
Plenty of B2B sales of real/immovable property occur informally.
quote:Guessing you’ve never done a title search. It would flag on any of the companies I use.
It's just forming a new/fake company. It's not that much effort.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:48 am to NC_Tigah
clerks only look at the form. They do not determine authenticity of the signatures, etc. That would be impossible in the recorder's office.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 9:48 am to Gorilla Ball
quote:
Title insurance??
That shits worthless.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 11:12 am to tide06
quote:
Simply establishing an emergency fraud claim process mandating a hearing within 7 days
That is not enough time for a real estate litigation to occur. Remember, you have to create the system for all potential real estate transactions or you risk the opposite occurring (fraudsters initiating proceedings where a homeowners may be unprepared and unable to mount a defense).
quote:
and ensuring that once the claim is made no sales or transactions can be made on the property until the hearing is completed would prevent the catastrophic issues going on in this NC case.
I already posted this exists in LA and I imagine other jurisdictions. Once you file a normal civil suit you file this in the records. In LA it's called a lis pendends and it acts like a lien.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 11:18 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Why isn’t a DA going after such a person?
Posted on 9/21/24 at 11:20 am to llfshoals
quote:
Guessing you’ve never done a title search. It would flag on any of the companies I use.
I'm not an expert, but how would you know?
I know the tax assessor documents used for title searches here and they just like the LLC as the owner.
On a normal title search, how would you know the Co LLC you were dealing with was the correct one? If their addresses (on paper) were the same and everything?
I literally just ran a property on our parish assessor and the owner of the property that I searched was just listed as an LLC. It doesn't even have the address of the LLC, incorporation, or member information.
If I ran the property history of this immovable property in the clerk's system
I then went into our parish index and ran the name of the LLC, which showed the transfer documents for that property. I just went over the transfer documents, and no details of the LLC were listed. The best you could infer were some information based on the contact/notice clause and the name of the member on the LLC on the signature page.
There was some details of the corporation selling the building, but that's irrelevant. Even if that information was listed for the seller, again, when forming the fake company you just use those names. There is no verification process when forming the LLC to prove who you are, at the time of formation.
All of this is illegal, sure, but we're assuming that in the hypothetical.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 11:34 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Bilateral (buyer-seller) confirmation of the transaction. There are a dozen ways to skin that cat.
Describe the system.
Posted on 9/21/24 at 11:38 am to Nosevens
Capital punishment
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