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re: Question for judges and attorneys...Where does your morality (if any) come into play ?
Posted on 5/20/24 at 8:48 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 5/20/24 at 8:48 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Some of you are due for a refresh on Blackstone's ratio.
I’d be curious to hear loogaroo’s thoughts on it.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 8:53 pm to kbtigers85
quote:Show us on the doll where the lawyer hurt you
Neither do lawyers. They’re all narcissistic pieces of garbage that like to stroke their own egos
Posted on 5/20/24 at 8:54 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
How do you present "the truth" at trial?
Tell a story that the jury believes.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 9:00 pm to loogaroo
Now that you see how corrupt prosecutors and the state can be,
I hope everyone has a greater appreciation for the criminal defense bar.
I hope everyone has a greater appreciation for the criminal defense bar.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 9:07 pm to boosiebadazz
Well, I didn't want to call him out specifically... 
Posted on 5/20/24 at 9:11 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
You’ve gotta have the system be rigid and predictable enough to matter and be legitimate but malleable enough for justice to prevail in the gray areas. It’s a tough combination.
Quoting your favorite law professor huh?
Does justice prevail regardless of which way a 5-4 decision goes?
Or is that just a coin flip influenced by politics?
Posted on 5/20/24 at 9:24 pm to Willie Stroker
quote:
Does justice prevail regardless of which way a 5-4 decision goes?
Justice prevails depending on who’s looking at the situation. There’s no universal standard of justice.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 5:45 am to loogaroo
quote:
Where do you draw the line in pursuing a conviction or defending a criminal?
You are assuming facts not in evidence. Lawyers and judges have no morality.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 5:53 am to Willie Stroker
quote:
Does justice prevail
To lawyers, $$$=Justice.
They'll sell out for a buck faster than strippers.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 6:01 am to Ebridg3
quote:
Tell a story that the jury believes.
It takes a sociopath, or autist for sure.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 6:51 am to boosiebadazz
quote:
quote:Some of you are due for a refresh on Blackstone's ratio. I’d be curious to hear loogaroo’s thoughts on it.
I don’t have a problem with this. I just don’t understand how morally someone can defend a person they know without a doubt is guilty and the inverse, prosecuting someone they know is innocent. Basically, I’m talking more about selective prosecution and lawfare.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Why would you mix morality and the law?
You think you can separate them?
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I don't represent people accused of sex crimes, for various reasons.
You are a criminal defense attorney?
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:SFP, whoever your mentor source was for that tenet did you a major disservice.
Morality doesn't really come into play there, either.
---
Yours or theirs?
---
Both
I'd hope the original messaging intent was to convey downplay of morality under assertion that every client deserves a full-throated defense regardless of personal belief, habit, or pursuit. e.g., Adam's defense of British soldiers was not popular, but it was exemplary.
In that regard, your field is not unique. Mine demands a similar approach. My responsibility is to provide best care to patients regardless of their personal appeal or repugnance. It is an interdisciplinary relational premise both intellectually and in practice.
Where you, and others in your field, jump the shark is in application of the same proposition to legal practitioners themselves. Lying is immoral. Unethical conduct is immoral. Of course those concepts should "come into play" in the practice of law. Practitioners guilty of such should be opposed, and vigorously addressed from a disciplinary standpoint.
Tolerance of the shirking of ethics, truth, and justice in pursuit of a legal outcome is the cornerstone of a broken, banana-republic legal system. Far too often, instead of being derided and shutdown, such behavior is lauded by your colleagues when it leads to favorable, or near-favorable, outcome in their behalf.
Until those issues are corrected, the reputation of American law will suffer hardily, as it should.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:46 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
the reputation of American law will suffer hardily, as it should.
I don’t completely disagree, but a large chunk of the disdain for the profession comes from the ambulance chaser set. While they’re responsible for that, so is our shite “something bad happened, I’m owed money” culture.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:54 am to Obtuse1
quote:
tend to park my morality at the door, but I do not and may not park ethics. Two completely different things.
This is what I think confuses a lot of people when they shite on lawyers.
If a lawyer is representing me I want a borderline immoral POS that has no regard for attacking character/agenda etc. of the people coming after me, but do it ethically so it all sticks.
My divorce attorney was like that and had no problem attacking my ex wife in court, it left her side reeling and worked out well for me as I got primary custody.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:54 am to brass2mouth
quote:
I want a borderline immoral POS
Thats cool and all, but as a human being, could you be a lawyer that defies your own morality?
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:08 am to Flats
quote:Perhaps that was the case previously.
a large chunk of the disdain for the profession comes from the ambulance chaser set.
But obvious uneven application of law w/ the Trump, J6, George Floyd, and Matthew Dolloff crap represents a seachange in legal approach public perception.
IMO, it's done damage to law in similar fashion to the reputational damage Covid inflicted on American medicine
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:17 am to Flats
quote:
You think you can separate them?
Quite easily.
However, I think there is some bait and switching going on, possibly unintentionally or ignorantly.
There are certain societal regulations at the legislative level that may induce debate based around morality. These are a very small subset of the overall population of laws, but they do exist and "grab the headlines", so to speak.
However, this thread isn't about legislating morality and is about the practice of law. We're talking about working within the legal framework created by legislators and regulators, not creating those laws (which often have value judgments if not outright moral ones).
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:18 am to moneyg
quote:
You are a criminal defense attorney?
Among other things.
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