Started By
Message

re: Question for judges and attorneys...Where does your morality (if any) come into play ?

Posted on 5/20/24 at 8:48 pm to
Posted by boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
84559 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 8:48 pm to
quote:

Some of you are due for a refresh on Blackstone's ratio.


I’d be curious to hear loogaroo’s thoughts on it.
Posted by FearTheFish
Member since Dec 2007
4321 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 8:53 pm to
quote:

Neither do lawyers. They’re all narcissistic pieces of garbage that like to stroke their own egos
Show us on the doll where the lawyer hurt you
Posted by Ebridg3
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Sep 2016
2965 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 8:54 pm to
quote:

How do you present "the truth" at trial?



Tell a story that the jury believes.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
80203 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 9:00 pm to
Now that you see how corrupt prosecutors and the state can be,

I hope everyone has a greater appreciation for the criminal defense bar.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 9:07 pm to
Well, I didn't want to call him out specifically...
Posted by Willie Stroker
Member since Sep 2008
15722 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 9:11 pm to
quote:

You’ve gotta have the system be rigid and predictable enough to matter and be legitimate but malleable enough for justice to prevail in the gray areas. It’s a tough combination.


Quoting your favorite law professor huh?

Does justice prevail regardless of which way a 5-4 decision goes?

Or is that just a coin flip influenced by politics?
Posted by boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
84559 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 9:24 pm to
quote:

Does justice prevail regardless of which way a 5-4 decision goes?


Justice prevails depending on who’s looking at the situation. There’s no universal standard of justice.
Posted by Sidicous
NELA
Member since Aug 2015
19296 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 5:45 am to
quote:

Where do you draw the line in pursuing a conviction or defending a criminal?


You are assuming facts not in evidence. Lawyers and judges have no morality.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297285 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 5:53 am to
quote:

Does justice prevail


To lawyers, $$$=Justice.

They'll sell out for a buck faster than strippers.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297285 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 6:01 am to
quote:

Tell a story that the jury believes.


It takes a sociopath, or autist for sure.
Posted by loogaroo
Welsh
Member since Dec 2005
39756 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 6:51 am to
quote:

quote:Some of you are due for a refresh on Blackstone's ratio. I’d be curious to hear loogaroo’s thoughts on it.


I don’t have a problem with this. I just don’t understand how morally someone can defend a person they know without a doubt is guilty and the inverse, prosecuting someone they know is innocent. Basically, I’m talking more about selective prosecution and lawfare.
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
26944 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:18 am to
quote:

Why would you mix morality and the law?



You think you can separate them?
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
62110 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:19 am to
quote:

I don't represent people accused of sex crimes, for various reasons.


You are a criminal defense attorney?
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:32 am to
quote:

Morality doesn't really come into play there, either.
---
Yours or theirs?
---
Both
SFP, whoever your mentor source was for that tenet did you a major disservice.

I'd hope the original messaging intent was to convey downplay of morality under assertion that every client deserves a full-throated defense regardless of personal belief, habit, or pursuit. e.g., Adam's defense of British soldiers was not popular, but it was exemplary.

In that regard, your field is not unique. Mine demands a similar approach. My responsibility is to provide best care to patients regardless of their personal appeal or repugnance. It is an interdisciplinary relational premise both intellectually and in practice.

Where you, and others in your field, jump the shark is in application of the same proposition to legal practitioners themselves. Lying is immoral. Unethical conduct is immoral. Of course those concepts should "come into play" in the practice of law. Practitioners guilty of such should be opposed, and vigorously addressed from a disciplinary standpoint.

Tolerance of the shirking of ethics, truth, and justice in pursuit of a legal outcome is the cornerstone of a broken, banana-republic legal system. Far too often, instead of being derided and shutdown, such behavior is lauded by your colleagues when it leads to favorable, or near-favorable, outcome in their behalf.

Until those issues are corrected, the reputation of American law will suffer hardily, as it should.
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
26944 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:46 am to
quote:

the reputation of American law will suffer hardily, as it should.


I don’t completely disagree, but a large chunk of the disdain for the profession comes from the ambulance chaser set. While they’re responsible for that, so is our shite “something bad happened, I’m owed money” culture.
Posted by brass2mouth
NOLA
Member since Jul 2007
20436 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:54 am to
quote:

tend to park my morality at the door, but I do not and may not park ethics. Two completely different things.


This is what I think confuses a lot of people when they shite on lawyers.

If a lawyer is representing me I want a borderline immoral POS that has no regard for attacking character/agenda etc. of the people coming after me, but do it ethically so it all sticks.

My divorce attorney was like that and had no problem attacking my ex wife in court, it left her side reeling and worked out well for me as I got primary custody.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297285 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 7:54 am to
quote:

I want a borderline immoral POS


Thats cool and all, but as a human being, could you be a lawyer that defies your own morality?

Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:08 am to
quote:

a large chunk of the disdain for the profession comes from the ambulance chaser set.
Perhaps that was the case previously.

But obvious uneven application of law w/ the Trump, J6, George Floyd, and Matthew Dolloff crap represents a seachange in legal approach public perception.

IMO, it's done damage to law in similar fashion to the reputational damage Covid inflicted on American medicine
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466927 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:17 am to
quote:

You think you can separate them?

Quite easily.

However, I think there is some bait and switching going on, possibly unintentionally or ignorantly.

There are certain societal regulations at the legislative level that may induce debate based around morality. These are a very small subset of the overall population of laws, but they do exist and "grab the headlines", so to speak.

However, this thread isn't about legislating morality and is about the practice of law. We're talking about working within the legal framework created by legislators and regulators, not creating those laws (which often have value judgments if not outright moral ones).

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466927 posts
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:18 am to
quote:

You are a criminal defense attorney?

Among other things.
Jump to page
Page First 4 5 6 7 8 ... 15
Jump to page
first pageprev pagePage 6 of 15Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram