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re: Populism (and Dobbs) is the basis for "muh democracy" rants and ravings from the DEMs
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:42 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Y'all keep trying to argue about the policy points and ignoring the actual point of OP.
Not really. Your argument seems to be for a pause, no movement right or left, hold. Because moving right will cause a backlash that will end up moving more left. That is NOT the position of the conservative base, they want to strengthen the protections in the Constitution and move everything thing else back down to the State level and they are willing to risk it to do so.
1
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:43 am to AggieHank86
quote:
The sort of nuanced politics that you described would certainly not be possible in Texas or Georgia today, any more than in the nation as a whole.
Unless you begin to remove democratic mechanisms that were added to the Constitution years after the fact.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:43 am to AggieHank86
quote:
FFS, SlowFlow is not arguing the MERITS of Dobbs. He is arguing the PERCEPTION.
Perception would be way different if the media would simply be honest and stop fear mongering in order to whip people into a frenzy. The national media is largely responsible for the state of politics today and that goes for both sides. Also lack of proper education on civics and government in public schools today. Both sides are full of idiots who have little idea how our govt works and they just repeat whatever lies their favorite media source tells them
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:44 am to the808bass
quote:
Are you sure your primary point isn’t about Dobbs and the election?
“I don’t know why people are only trying to make this about abortion.
Abortion is the only actual policy I talked about in the first post of this thread. There are 2 huge graphics about abortion in the first post of this thread. Essentially every other post I make in this thread is about abortion. When people try to bring other policies into this discussion I tell them they’re not as good as abortion.
But this totally isn’t about abortion.”
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:45 am to the808bass
quote:
Are you sure your primary point isn’t about Dobbs and the election?
I already said Dobbs was a necessary correction to a terrible ruling in Roe. I don't really discuss abortion because it just leads to auto-emotional responses.
BUT, Dobbs can't be ignored within the current framework. The "muh democracy" threads have been populating this board this week (in proportionate response to the DEM use of the idea has increase), so it's necessary to discuss exactly what's being referenced.
Unless we actually go down the path of right-authoritarianism via populism (which I don't think is a real threat right now), Dobbs will be the primary example of the gains/effects of right-populism in America for decades. It's the peak and I don't see another likely peak as tall they can conquer.
In addition to its historical place, it's direct effect on the very elections "muh democracy" is being used on, makes it prescient.
This post was edited on 11/5/22 at 9:47 am
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:46 am to Open Your Eyes
“Any prohibitions on abortion are regressive and illiberal.
Why are you guys making this about abortion!?”
Why are you guys making this about abortion!?”
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I don't really discuss abortion because it just leads to auto-emotional responses.
You might want to speak to the other half of your personality about this.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:47 am to deltaland
quote:
SCOTUS isn’t there to be popular. They interpret the constitution as it applies to cases presented to them. I
Cool.
They overruled 40 years of precedent on a major issue.
That is going to have downstream effects on the population, especially with respect to perception of the groups involved.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:47 am to Antonio Moss
quote:Maybe I did not make my point very well. Our original system worked as you envision (and as I think we both would see is ideal) because the constituencies were small enough to actually debate the issues.
Unless you begin to remove democratic mechanisms that were added to the Constitution years after the fact.
You could have a nuanced discussio/debate for a couple of hundred thousand people in South Carolina, then take a unified stance through appointed senators and a bloc vote in the electoral college.
The constituencies now are just too big. Campaigning in only Louisiana today is the equivalent of running a national campaign in 1789.
This post was edited on 11/5/22 at 9:50 am
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:48 am to cssamerican
quote:
Your argument seems to be for a pause, no movement right or left, hold.
No.
quote:
That is NOT the position of the conservative base, they want to strengthen the protections in the Constitution and move everything thing else back down to the State level
That is the position of a small population of the conservative base, sure.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:49 am to deltaland
quote:
Perception would be way different if the media would simply be honest and stop fear mongering in order to whip people into a frenzy.
Based on what data?
Also, go read my exchange with Steve about how you're likely ignoring your own institutionally-created biases.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:50 am to the808bass
quote:
“Any prohibitions on abortion are regressive and illiberal.
Why are you guys making this about abortion!?”
That's part of how Dobbs fits into the right-populist focus on cultural policies.
What's so confusing to you about how Dobbs fits into the larger point?
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:51 am to the808bass
quote:
You might want to speak to the other half of your personality about this.
I'm all autist-robot, sir.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:51 am to SlowFlowPro
Then what are you arguing that the political right should do?
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:51 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:He is actually one of the posters bright enough to understand your point. For whatever reason he is choosing to be intentionally obtuse.
What's so confusing to you about how Dobbs fits into the larger point?
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:52 am to cssamerican
quote:
Then what are you arguing that the political right should do?
I don't make those decisions and this thread isn't about discussing how to lead the "political right" to more democratic success.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:53 am to the808bass
quote:
but the fact remains that voter ID laws exclude DEM voters. It’s excludes Democrat votes. That may or may not have a correlation to excluding voters.
This. Those excluded votes are from fraudulent votes. I’ve never met a person who doesn’t have an ID. You need it to drive a car. To fly on a plane. To buy alcohol or tobacco. ID is necessary in so many aspects of our society it would be difficult to function in society without it. But somehow requiring it to vote is oppressive. It’s complete bullshite especially when there are many acceptable forms of ID
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:53 am to cssamerican
quote:
Then what are you arguing that the political right should do?
Keep their religion to themselves.
SFP believes Southern Baptists are the political counterbalance to Marxists.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Remember post Dobbs when people on this board were making the same argument (that Dobbs was just the first step to undoing other cases)?
Remember when people against the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage said it was a first step in opening the floodgates to depraved behavior becoming legalized? Gay marriage is not about depraved behavior, but people feared what could come with a Supreme Court decision vs legislation.
I am a liberal, but the difference is the conservatives aren’t going to go after some of the crap the Dems crowed about c on InT because of Dobbs being overturned. In contrast, the Dems are pushing the potential legalization of Pedophilia in some cases and transgenderism being celebrated instead of being treated.
Again, most people are for limited abortion rights, such as 12 weeks and then health or the mother (already protected), rape, incest. You are acting like most people are for unfettered abortion in how you frame your statements and that is simply not true.
For example, I am personally against abortion. I find it disgusting and abhorrent. I understand it In situations like rape and incest and always in the case of the mother’s life being at real risk. That said, I can’t make that decision for others entirely, but some restriction is needed. I will judge a person that gets an abortion for convenience though and likely cut them out of my life as much as possible.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 9:54 am to AggieHank86
quote:
He is actually one of the posters bright enough to understand your point. For whatever reason he is choosing to be intentionally obtuse.
We're about a page away from people claiming my REAL purpose of this thread was to criticize religion.
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