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re: Passing a law designating Islam as a political movement

Posted on 8/16/26 at 9:29 am to
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47478 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 9:29 am to
quote:

If a man could not afford the concubine, then she was to be set free.
You must be referring to Exodus 21. In that passage, it speaks to the rights of a young woman being given as a concubine wife to a master of a house or his son. It speaks to how she must be treated as a true wife or daughter rather than being sold off to a foreigner, and how she cannot have her standard of living and care reduced if the husband takes on another wife. Lastly, it says that if he does not take care of her, she can go free rather than lack care. These were protections that were not common in the ancient near east.

Where it applies to your question is that the civil law of ancient Israel does not mirror the civil laws of modern day America exactly, so there is no selling of yourself into slavery to have financial and material protection, since we have other welfare programs that do that.

It is also different in regard to divorce, as the New Testament restrictions harken back to the original plan for marriage that was overthrown by sin, and the Mosaic law was not permissive of sin, but regulated it for a people who were hard-hearted, as Jesus said. The abiding principle of marriage is that it should be monogamous and permanent, with only a couple of ways out that do not result in sin. So, if you took a wife, you need to provide for her and not divorce her unless she cheats on you.

quote:

Why is it Jesus and God can speak through certain people but not to other people directly?

I guess he just doesn't give a frick about them?
Why do you care how God speaks to people? He can speak to whomever He wants, however He wants.

If your concern is for proof of His existence, then God speaking directly to someone won’t guarantee that. People like yourself are so hard-hearted these days that they may come up with any excuse not to believe it was real.

Anyway, He spoke through His prophets and apostles in order to have a written record that would be passed down for all people to have the same revelation. That is called the Bible. You have access to it right now. That seems to show some care for you.

quote:

So God put me here and is going to punish me if I don't believe in a whipping boy claim of human sacrifice more than 2000 years ago?
No. You are already condemned for your sin and rebellion against God. You are guilty for breaking His law. He owes you no pardon and would be perfectly justified to let you die in your sins and then be judged for eternity for your rebellion against an infinite God. Instead, He offers you pardon for sin out of mercy, and all you have to do is receive it by faith. It’s free.

quote:

Straight up condemns billions of people to hell for no reason other than their culture and birth location/time?
No. They all are condemned already. Nature shows that there is a God, and His law is written on their hearts so that they know the law and do not do it. They are guilty, as you are. And because no one is owed pardon for sin, God is not obligated to pardon their sin, and He is not cruel to punish sin in those who reject Him. However, He sends missionaries throughout the world to share the message of pardon and salvation to many who don’t deserve it so that the offer is there. The offer is there for you, too, if you will accept it. If you don’t, you of all people should not talk about unfairness with God, since He offers it to you freely and you reject it.

quote:

And he's not doing the punishment as a lesson, but out of pure vengeance for all of eternity?
It is for justice. You have broken the law and committed cosmic treason.

quote:

And one person can commit all kinds of crazy sins, but if they praise "Christ is King" they get away with it, but the man who lives his entire life as a good person spends eternity in hell because they don't?
First, merely saying “Christ is King” is not sufficient. That is what the Pharisees said about the Father and disobeyed Him otherwise, and did not believe and follow Him by faith. They rejected His Messiah and Son and are judged for that. Those who are truly repentant and sorrowful for their sins can be forgiven. That’s the great promise for all people, even you. The guilt you may feel for the bad things you’ve done in this life can be taken away, not merely by calling Jesus Lord and King, but by believing that is true and following Him by faith.

Second, there are no good people according to God’s standard of goodness. Jesus said no one is good but God. God requires moral perfection, and all sin and fall short of His glory. So no, there are no good people who are condemned. All who are condemned deserve it.

quote:

There is nothing divine or godly about such claims. Sounds like a real piece of shite.
You show a basic misunderstanding about the claims of the Bible, so it isn’t surprising you feel this way. You also have a hard heart toward the truth, so that’s also not surprising. However the offer of forgiveness is still there for you. You need to accept it and trust that Jesus’ sinless life and unjust death actually provides forgives for you so you can have your guilt before God washed away. Believe in Him today, before it is too late.
Posted by CTregistrar
Member since Aug 2024
135 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 9:54 am to
Skirting our laws is problematic but if Muslims become the majority and take over our government, it will cease to exist along with any freedoms we currently enjoy. Islamic followers mean to overtake the USA not conform to its ideals and values.
Posted by LSURulzSEC
Lake Charles via Oakdale
Member since Aug 2004
79658 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 10:02 am to
there is no place for islam in the world, plus stop capitalizing it, it should not be given any respect...its a deadly cult that worships a pedo and it needs to be purged from the planet like the disease it is...
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
64622 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 10:41 am to
quote:

LSURulzSEC


Yikes.
Posted by RemyLeBeau
Member since Mar 2015
2199 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 11:12 am to
quote:

Are you ok with the Democrats banning Christianity because that's what comes next?


Are you ok with Muslims banning Christianity once they reach sufficient majorities? Because that is coming.
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3777 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 11:18 am to
quote:

It is unlikely this would work in that it would almost be impossible to make a convincing argument that Islam isn't a religion. Now you could argue that there is something else (yet unnamed AFAIK, besides maybe radical Islamist) that you could define outside of religion and get it recognized as a non-religious movement like, say, communism.

AFAIK the only banning of communism on the books of any state prevents public office and working for the government. These are all from the 50s and 60s. I assume that is what you mean when you say ban. The problem is while they are still on the books in some states (I think AL may be one) they were all held unconstitutional in a string of cases from the 60s. Nostrand and Robel are two that come to mind.

The only constitutional way to handle this is just like birthright citizenship, which is at the border. As the law stands today, once they are in the country, they have constitutional rights. You could probably change state laws/constitutions to limit governmental positions to natural-born citizens but that doesn't impact second-generation, and it cuts both ways for people like Arnold.



The most rational post I have seen in this thread so far.

One thing that I don't think that a lot of people understand is that Islam came to America well before 1776. Not in great numbers, but Muslims have lived here for well over 250 years. There are generations of people born and raised in the US as Muslims.

Others moved here during the 19th and 20th centuries when we were importing labor from all over the world.

The reason there are so many Muslims in Dearborn MI is because Henry Ford hired them and moved them here to work in his factories.

Trying to get Islam legally declared as not a religion, but a political movement, is a fool's errand that has no legs. It would not withstand Constitutional scrutiny.

The best way to combat the influence of Islam is at the ballot box.
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3777 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 11:23 am to
quote:

To the Framers, the only Religions were the various forms of Christianity.


Then why did they not say so in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution?

The Declaration makes no mention of Christianity.

The Constitution does not even mention a god or creator.
Posted by JasonDBlaha
Woodlands, Texas
Member since Apr 2023
5307 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 11:27 am to
The issue of Islam is extremely complex and involves more than simply religion.

Arab culture is very backwards compared to the rest of the world. I’m talking about the Arab League countries, specifically. They’re a collectivist, patriarchal, anti-pluralist group of people that place heavy emphasis on conformity with all family members. Anyone who falls out of line gets beaten, harassed, or even killed. They’re very clannish in how they behave, and that goes back to their origins of having to survive in an extremely harsh desert climate.

Combine that with Islam and you get a group of people that are seclusive to outsiders, place heavy emphasis on in-group, breed like rabbits, and hold devout religious beliefs, there lies the problem.

It’s more than religion; it’s race and ethnicity. The mainstream right wants to blame it on religion more than race. That’s why we’re losing.
This post was edited on 8/16/26 at 11:30 am
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3777 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 11:38 am to
quote:

Look at every Islamic country. Every single one of them were once Christian nations.


When was Pakistan ever a "Christian" nation?
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3777 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Remove the religious aspect. Declare them a threat. Declare them a terrorist organization. There's more than enough proof of it to do so.


Are you saying that the government should declare any American citizen who is a practicing Muslim to be a terrorist?
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3777 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 11:50 am to
quote:

If I announced tomorrow that I had a vision from some made up god or prophet, started a religion, and said the god or prophet told me that murder of non believers, oppression of women, and pedophilia were ok should I be able to freely spread that religion and commit those acts without consequences? You know, because 1st amendment and all


Joseph Smith believed in the oppression of women and pedophilia, and he and his followers practiced it.

In fact, the Mormons were an actual "political" movement because they petitioned for statehood for Utah.
Posted by SouthEasternKaiju
SouthEast... you figure it out
Member since Aug 2021
49622 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 11:52 am to
The left have been trying to wrap Christianity up into a far - right wing conservative political movement for how many decades?

They’re actively doing it in real time right now.
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3777 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 11:52 am to
quote:

That's weird because I don't remember any mooslems in school back in the 70's.

I think your boys Obama/Biden were the culprit


There have been Muslims living in the US since well before the country was founded.

Also, you can thank Henry Ford for importing a bunch of them.
Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3777 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

I think you are wrong about this. Islam is a religion wedded to a governing philosophy that is at odds with our constitution. We can outlaw Islam without violating our constitution by forcing Islamists to swear they reject Sharia Law, for example.


Sharia cannot become law here unless lawmakers enact it.

We, the people, get to decide who our lawmakers are.

Stop electing Muslims. Pure and simple.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
83654 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

If I announced tomorrow that I had a vision from some made up god or prophet, started a religion, and said the god or prophet told me that murder of non believers, oppression of women, and pedophilia were ok should I be able to freely spread that religion and commit those acts without consequences? You know, because 1st amendment and all



David Koresh didn’t even go that far and look what happened.

Islamic leaders are calling for far more than Koresh did.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
57598 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

Stop electing Muslims. Pure and simple.

Here here! And stop letting them into our country.
Posted by PaulDrake
L.A. & Bayou Pa Pon
Member since Feb 2023
1033 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 12:19 pm to
An organization preaching death to America and all non believers is not illegal here on our own soil?

The USA needs make a move now before it`s too late.


Posted by Stinger_1066
On a golf course
Member since Jul 2021
3777 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 12:22 pm to
quote:


there is no place for islam in the world, plus stop capitalizing it, it should not be given any respect...its a deadly cult that worships a pedo and it needs to be purged from the planet like the disease it is...


Are you a Trump supporter?
Posted by Wolfwireless
Member since Aug 2024
5541 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 12:30 pm to
quote:

Are you saying that the government should declare any American citizen who is a practicing Muslim to be a terrorist?

Or terrorist supporter.
Flat out? Yes.
A religion should self police itself. And Islam is all about policing themselves.
If they are not willing to denounce the Jihadists and extremists in their cult, they are do nothings, and every bit as responsible for the terrors committed by the extremists as those that commit them.
There are no innocents.

I'm also saying that if the government won't do it, under the 2nd amendment We the People Should.

You can disagree with me, and I can understand that. I'm further right than most conservatives.
But I'm not gonna change my stance on the answer to the question.
This post was edited on 8/16/26 at 12:35 pm
Posted by themunch
in motion
Member since Jan 2007
72562 posts
Posted on 8/16/26 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

The left have been wrapping Christianity up into a far - right wing conservative political movement for many decades
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