re: Official US/Israel vs Iran war thread

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Trump knows Iran will not abide by the deal.

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If what has been put out there so far is close to accurate, I legitimately hope they don't so we can blow it up and get another one.

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It's been the pattern of the Trump administrations:

Obamacare repeal
Infrastructure
North Korea
Covid
Doge
Tariffs
ICE in Minnesota

and now Iran. It's all been half-assed. He commits then when it gets hard he either loses attention or capitulates.

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Never seen it laid out that way but you’re absolutely right. He really pissed me off when he threw ICE into absolutely shite situations then just let them fend for themselves.

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This is mostly excuse-making dressed up as counterargument. You’re answering a criticism of execution by pretending the only alternative was lawless maximalism.

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This is excuse making dressed up as a counterargument. You're answering the fact of radical leftist lawlessness by pretending that Trump could somehow cure their violent obstructionism without looking like the dictator you claim he is.

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There is massive space between “blindly follow every entrenched public health official” and “let millions die.” Trump chose the people around him. He chose the messaging. He chose the posture. He elevated Fauci and Birx, held the briefings, endorsed the shutdown logic, then later tried to act like the whole thing just happened to poor little him. Your defense is that Trump was just helpless in his own administration?

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The people you cite were leaders of the medical bureaucracy. They were the "experts" and they were supported by the other leaders of the medical establishment. They had the degrees and the bureaucratic experience. Every president has to trust the "experts" on such subjects, and there was nobody outside the medical establishment with enough clout to convincingly overrule the establishment. I guess Trump could've fired them all and brought in a Yes-man, and then you and the media would've blamed him for every death. He would've been impeached and removed from office before the election. Those were his choices, and there was really only one choice because his non-medical opinion was so uninformed as to be irrelevant.

You want Trump to be a martyr, to reject the medical estalishment and fight a war over something he doesn't understand, because no president ever could have enough understanding in that situation. That's a leftist fantasy just waiting to pounce and you're quite disingenous to suggest it was an option. Trump wasn't helpless, he was dependent on experts to give him advice on how to handle a complex medical situation. He followed their advice. If you expect any president or rational person would've done differently in that circumstance, you're naive, at best.

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Same dodge. If the answer is “judges blocked him,” then the obvious question is whether he had a serious legal strategy before announcing the policy. If every major promise depends on courts, Congress, agencies, staffing, and execution, then competence means anticipating and compensating for those obstacles. “He would have done it but the system resisted” is not a defense. Especially when that was actually the criticism.

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Ah, now I understand. Trump should've prepared better for a legion of leftist judges that rule against him on every issue, bogging down implementation of even trivial matters like painting a pool bottom. He should've been prepared for them to repeatedly attack every facet of one of the most thorough, concise, clear bodies of legislation ever assembled, constitutional and statutory, which was executive branch authority over matters of border control and immigration enforcement. He should've known that they would ignore the fact presidents had control of tariffs since 1932, as granted by the Congress and embodied several times later. I understand your entertainment. Your judges play politics and you say the president should somehow beat them at their own game; but if he does, he's a dictator.

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Nobody but you suggested the only alternative was sending in the National Guard and creating a bloodbath. That’s a fake binary of your singular creation. The point is that he talks like he controls the executive branch, then when enforcement gets complicated, suddenly he’s essentially a spectator blaming Democrats, judges, funding, mayors, media, or whoever else is convenient. So which is it?

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ICE was facing organized violent resistance in the streets (you may have noticed that very serious charges are now forthcoming). Local law enforcement were not doing their job. There were two choices; fight back with agents who were outnumbered and never intended to be street warriors, or redirect elsewhere. Nobody has suggested any other alternative because there was none. Your thugs weren't going to withdraw and local govt was hostile to the very presence of ICE. The president wasn't a spectator, he made an executive decision to move ICE elsewhere. You blame Trump for making a decision, which you would've criticized no matter what he did.

Talk about convenient. Being the party of violent obstructionism is convenient. You initiate the violence. President faces your violence with violence he's a dictator. He moves on to get the job done elsewhere, he's a spectator. Meanwhile, your violent followers try repeatedly to assassinate him and shortcut the process, even before he's elected. You indicted him before he ever started, which leads to strained arguments like this one where you pretend he had choices which would've satisfied your demands and obviated this debate. The problem is that your firmly stated "opinions" aren't opinions at all, they're left wing anti-Trump dogma. It's a cliche at this point, but you can save yourself a lot of time by just typing OMB.

Bloomberg just published draft of MOU.
MOU Draft

IMHO it's an abject failure. I'm sure the Trump camp will hail it a historic victory. It is what it is.

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-Iran reiterates it will NEVER produce nuclear weapons, with the fate of enriched material deferred to the final deal.

-Both maintain the status quo until then: Iran keeps its current nuclear program, the U.S. adds no sanctions or forces.

-Washington exempts Iranian oil and related banking from sanctions.

-Washington releases frozen Iranian funds, with final negotiations beginning once implementation guarantees are met.

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If it’s no nukes ever

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How many different American administrations has Iran made this deal with?

I need more clarification on the wording, but it may be $400B total

*ETA: the lifted sanctions can't be ignored. They're about to start printing money for the fanatical regime.

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I’m hearing Trump cut Israel out of the deal and is not allowing them to see the MOU

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Do they not have the internet in Tel Aviv?

Yeah this deal is absolute dogshit. Trump should be fricking embarrassed.