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re: Obviuosly Churchill knew he was making horrible decisions.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:50 am to Champagne
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:50 am to Champagne
Grant's commander was petrified that Grant would steal his thunder, at every opportunity he underminded him. He sent a letter to President Lincoln saying that he believed Grant was "on the bottle" again.
Lincoln replied, you should enquire what he is drinking and requisition some for the rest of your staff.....he seems to be the only one winning.
Lincoln replied, you should enquire what he is drinking and requisition some for the rest of your staff.....he seems to be the only one winning.
1
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:58 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
The whole thread is about Churchill's drinking. You have moved the bar to drugs.
By mentioning drugs along with alcohol?
You're the one still focusing on drugs even though I dropped it.
Do you think "under the influence" means drunk?
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:58 am to Azkiger
I love that classic scene in Dunkirk (I know fabricated for cinematic effect). The US congress forbids assistance for the war, parliament is licking their chops because he has not surrendered and Dunkirk is a shot to the heart. The weight of the whole world on his shoulders....and dont think it cant get worse, his car breaks down on the way to Parliament. He hops on a city bus and the people are aghast...its the man in real life. Totally silent they look at him with his head bowed.
And the one kid says to him "Sir, I say we fight" and the whole bus erupts. He goes to parliament and says "...we will fight them in the fields......we shall never give up.
And the one kid says to him "Sir, I say we fight" and the whole bus erupts. He goes to parliament and says "...we will fight them in the fields......we shall never give up.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:58 am to Timeoday
Churchill saved Western Europe and rallied the world to defeat Hitler.
He was one of the most important people in the history of the 20th century.
He was one of the most important people in the history of the 20th century.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:06 am to I B Freeman
At one point during the blitz the codebreakers at Bletchley Park told him the german bombing raid that night would not be London but another city they had not bombed before. It would be lit up, no one in bomb shelters, total defenseless.
And Churchill said do not alert them, if we do the Germans will come to no other conclusion but that we have broken their code. That takes some brass balls there. And the kind of leader you need during a war.
And Churchill said do not alert them, if we do the Germans will come to no other conclusion but that we have broken their code. That takes some brass balls there. And the kind of leader you need during a war.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:09 am to Ribbed
quote:
Deconstruction is a tedious exercise in futility.
frick these Marxist figs that exist to tear down anyone who accomplished anything.
OP, go do something with your life. You miserable ingrate.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:11 am to Ribbed
quote:
We should declare war on England immediately to punish them for the lives lost.
Deconstruction is a tedious exercise in futility.
I've discussed this "Deconstruction" issue with a military history professor, and, I believe that there is a middle ground. He agrees with you completely and I understand his position. All too often, Revisionism and Deconstruction of generally accepted history is done for the wrong motives. I do dislike that kind of historical revisionism.
But, there are many issues in history that are still being developed and new evidence discovered. If we condemn and shun all new ideas about what really happened, then we are hurting our chances of actually learning from history.
History in many cases was written to be propaganda - often wartime propaganda. We don't deserve to be shackled by that - "we" being the people who really want the truth about what happened in the past.
So, revisionism is not a bad word, but, if the author's motives are wrong, then, I see your point.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:12 am to trinidadtiger
quote:
Lincoln replied, you should enquire what he is drinking and requisition some for the rest of your staff.....he seems to be the only one winning.
BOOM!Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:14 am to Champagne
quote:
History in many cases was written to be propaganda
This is also propaganda. Are you too dense to see that?
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:17 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
Who?
That is a lie that "functioning" alcoholics tell themselves.
My golf game is 10 strokes better after a few drinks and that is 100% fact
This post was edited on 12/10/23 at 10:20 am
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:21 am to coolpapaboze
quote:
He led a fascinating life that spanned an incredible time in history.
I read a biography and was amazed at a number of things including his military service, his setbacks and his resolve.
Somewhat similar to Patton in some respects
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:26 am to Champagne
quote:
there are many issues in history that are still being developed and new evidence discovered. If we condemn and shun all new ideas about what really happened, then we are hurting our chances of actually learning from history.
History in many cases was written to be propaganda - often wartime propaganda. We don't deserve to be shackled by that - "we" being the people who really want the truth about what happened in the past.
Great post. 100% agree.
The purpose of understanding history is to see more clearly in the present.
Some people want to understand the mechanisms of society that lead us on our paths. Some people want heroes to admire. Some people want to study battle tactics. History can do all those things. But there has to be some honest level of deconstruction to find the nuance and truth.
I like the example of Frederick the Great. For a very long time, the germans did not want to accept the fact that he was gay, even though the evidence is overwhelming. Just like with Churchill's drinking, its fair to ask if it even matters. Maybe not, they both accomplished great things and it shouldnt take away from that greatness. But in order to better understand the person, it is a valid observation.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:31 am to Timeoday
"You, Mr Churchill, are drunk."
"And you, Lady Astor, are ugly. But I shall be sober in the morning."
"And you, Lady Astor, are ugly. But I shall be sober in the morning."
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:35 am to Champagne
the word revision implies nothing about accuracy. i fail to see how it has any merit inherently
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:46 am to Hooligan's Ghost
quote:
the word revision implies nothing about accuracy. i fail to see how it has any merit inherently
When new data is found about figures or events of the past, it is of great merit to revise them under the light of the new information.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:55 am to oldhickory1812
correct information should always be reported about history. certainly. the word "revision" implies nothing about accuracy, truth, or being correct. it is inadequate word useage
Posted on 12/10/23 at 10:08 am to coolpapaboze
quote:
... was precisely the leader Britain needed to get through and win WWII
So the war he caused is the war he won.
Politicians casuse problems only to fix them as the people go,"Hip, hip, Hooray."
Rinse & Repeat!!
Posted on 12/10/23 at 10:17 am to Timeoday
quote:
So the war he caused is the war he won
Everyone talks about Hitler's hatred for the jews and how he blamed them for Germany's problems. But he hated the British just as much and he blamed them for Germany's strife a lot more than the jews.
In WW1, the english were pretty hellbent on destroying the Germans. It was only because the brutal effects that trench warfare had on the populations on both sides that the killing stopped. The damn politicians were happy to keep sending men to die.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 10:24 am to Timeoday
*gasp*
Posted on 12/10/23 at 10:33 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
Who?
That is a lie that "functioning" alcoholics tell themselves.
America was built by people who smoke two packs a day and had 3-martini lunches.
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