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Message

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.

Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:15 pm to
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:15 pm to
quote:



There has been a global reduction in crime. There has not, however, been a corresponding global reduction in gun crime in the US with respect to the rest of the world.
Whatever reasons you assign, gun deaths are, in fact, down.

quote:

That is, we're still monstrously higher than every other comparable country. Let's fix that

Ok. Hence, my question. Can you define what you consider "fixed"?

Fewer isn't a definition.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63232 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

Exactly. That's a problem.

That’s a feature!

Do you know what one of the most crowded places in TX on Formula 1 weekend is? Cabelas. Europeans touching guns. Because... they want to. It’s hilarious and... well sad at the same time.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

The US ranks 25th in firearm homicide rate.


Exactly. That's a problem.

I answered you.

Did you ever answer if you assigned value to gun ownership?

Posted by SidewalkDawg
Chair
Member since Nov 2012
10290 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

It can't when any study that says in the slightest way "stricter gun control laws would save lives" is perceived as advocating for gun control.


They, quite literally, don't know this. Your assumption that this is the conclusion of a non-existent study does not make it true.

quote:

We're going to understand that we can't stop every mass shooting, but we can take steps to limit the possibility one occurs.


This is exactly the same argument you're going to be spouting off on this board after the next mass shooting if these changes are made. You just can't be honest with yourself that the only solution that matters (as flawed as it is) is total confiscation and elimination of firearms in the USA.

When you can admit that your goal is to repeal the 2nd, we can start to have an honest discussion.

quote:

Or we can do jack shite and loudly proclaim we don't care about dead children if it means any stricter gun laws, like Republicans have done for the last 20 years.


More appeals to emotion. One of my position is that a gun free zones are a major attraction to mass shooters, seeing as the majority of these incidents take place in this setting. Can we agree that most mass shootings take place in gun free zones?

quote:

Marijuana should be legal. But if you knowingly break the law, you should be prepared to face the consequences, whatever those might be. I don't see any of you guys wringing your hands over all of the nonviolent drug offenders (usually minorities) in prison and without their voting rights for the past 40 years, suddenly you care about this because it involves guns.


You're building a nice straw man of my positions to try and tear down. I'm for legalization, I'm against jailing non-violent offenders, and I'm against stripping them of their rights.

quote:

I'm going to understand that it's much more difficult to buy a black market gun, and fewer people have the means. That includes people who might otherwise commit violent acts.


You would be dead wrong. LINK

quote:

Do you think the legal drinking age being 21 rather than 18 has reduced or increased the crime of DUI driving among 18 to 21 year olds?


Is DUI a crime of violence? Is it committed with intent to harm?
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 3:20 pm
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63232 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

"Fewer" isn't an answer.
Obviously. Fewer than what? But you’re are about as likely to gen an answer on that as I am on AR-15 functionality.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63232 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

Swords and bow and arrows were originally designed for military use.
Jet engine. Hummer, GPS, shoes.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

Exactly. That's a problem.
That’s a feature

That's why i asked him what value he assigns gun ownership.

If he assigns no value to it, then the proper goal for total gun death in America is simple. You're shooting for ZERO.

But, if you assign some value to gun ownership by citizens, then, you likely accept that zero isn't a solution.

Hence, I ask him to define "solved".
Posted by civiltiger07
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2011
15062 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

So how does the US's violent crime rate compare to other countries?


quote:

US is 92nd in intentional homicide rate.


92nd is pretty low, but I asked about violent crime.

quote:

The US ranks 25th in firearm homicide rate.


quote:

Exactly. That's a problem.


but but we have a gun problem in this country! #1 in firearm ownership by a wide margin. 25th in firearm homicides. You claim more guns = more gun deaths. Seems that doesn't exactly correlate.
Posted by BamaAtl
South of North
Member since Dec 2009
22253 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

Thats not unique to he AR-15.


And? Since you're that concerned, let's just use the list that Dick's and Wal-mart will no longer sell. We can all agree that the largest firearms sellers in the country can properly define these weapons.
Posted by BamaAtl
South of North
Member since Dec 2009
22253 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

So you want to ban semi-auto guns, glad you admitted that.


Wrong.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:19 pm to
quote:


And? Since you're that concerned, let's just use the list that Dick's and Wal-mart will no longer sell. We can all agree that the largest firearms sellers in the country can properly define these weapons.


If we do that how will we know if we successfully satisfied the BamaAtl's of the world?
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63232 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

Hence, I ask him to define "solved".
For the authoritarian wannabe... no problem is solved.

Until they have power. The they get rid of the “problems”. Hence the need to disarm the “problems”.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63232 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

And?
So why would you only ban one model? Go ahead say it.

quote:

We can all agree that the largest firearms sellers in the country can properly define these weapons.
Sure. We can totally trust large corporate retailers to have our best interests at heart. I hope you’re high. Drunk isn’t this stupid.
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
46352 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:23 pm to
If you want a little knowledge about an assault weapon, I encourage you to look at this slide show

THE TRUTH ABOUT ASSAULT WEAPONS
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

Hence, I ask him to define "solved".
For the authoritarian wannabe... no problem is solved.


It's the left's approach to every issue.

"Let's do X to solve poverty".

10 years later

There's too much poverty!!! Let's do Y

10 years later

There's too much poverty. Let's do Z

At no point ever defining "success" and labeling all other variables as insignificant to the discussion.

It's why liberals invented the "if we save one child" argument. It's blindingly stupid, but, they use it!
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 3:26 pm
Posted by civiltiger07
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2011
15062 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:24 pm to
quote:

Jet engine. Hummer, GPS, shoes.


he did say weapons designed for military use. So I kept it to weapons.

But we can list others as well:
Interstate Highway (how many are killed every year on interstates?)
internet
Posted by civiltiger07
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2011
15062 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

Dick's and Wal-mart


quote:

largest firearms sellers in the country can properly define these weapons.




Dick's and Wal-Mart are not even close to the largest firearm sellers in the US.

quote:

We can all agree that the largest firearms sellers in the country can properly define these weapons.


What? NO we can't agree on that!
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 3:27 pm
Posted by SidewalkDawg
Chair
Member since Nov 2012
10290 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

internet


This is a great one.

The Internet is making bullying a national epidemic. Kids die daily from suicide from online bullying. We need to regulate and restrict the internet to 21 years old only. You need a mental health and background check to access it.

We can't save all lives lost due to online bullying, but we can possibly save some with these measures.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

Apparently not very good at analysis


Interesting observation from someone whining because I've supposedly provided none.

You owe me work.

I'm patient.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 3:27 pm to
quote:

Vertical axis, champ.


That wasn't my critique. I can explain it if I need to do that.
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