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SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
Chair
Member since Nov 2012
7629 posts

Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
Does anyone remember the time that Obama issued an Executive Action for the CDC to study Firearms?

Probably most people don't remember it because it did not paint a very good picture for gun grabbers.

The entire study is here for anyone interested:

LINK

Some of my favorite findings from this study:

quote:

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).


So we have 10-20,000 murders by firearms per year in the USA, but this study concludes that anywhere from 500,000 to 3 million lives are saved by someone with a firearm per year. Sounds to me like if you removed the right of people to carry guns you'd be condemning a lot of people to death.

quote:

Although overall crime rates have declined in the past decade and violent crimes, including homicides specifically, have declined in the past 5 years (FBI, 2011a), crime-related deaths involving firearms remain a serious threat. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI’s) Uniform Crime Reporting Program, 68,720 people were murdered in firearm-related violence between 2007 and 2011. During that same time frame, firearms accounted for more than twice as many murders as all other weapons combined (FBI, 2011b). More than two-thirds of victims murdered by a spouse or ex-spouse died as a result of a gunshot wound (Cooper and Smith, 2011).


So they've admitted that Violence and Gun Violence are both on the decline despite this next part:

quote:

Guns are widely used for recreation, self-protection, and work in the United States. However, it is difficult to determine the exact number and distribution of guns currently in homes and communities due to lack of data. Between 1986 and 2010, the domestic production of firearms increased by 79 percent, firearm exports increased by 11 percent, and firearm imports increased by 305 percent (ATF, 2012). A December 2012 poll found that 43 percent of those surveyed reported having a gun in the home (Gallup, 2013).


So, violent crime down - gun ownership up. Sweet.

quote:

A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004). Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings.


So again, carrying a gun responsibly is a net positive to victims of crime in most cases.

I wonder why this study never saw the light of day on CNN or MSNBC?

This post was edited on 3/5 at 3:03 pm


CAD703X
Toledo Fan
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
55029 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
that was the ultimate 'thread did not go as planned' for obama


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1081
wickowick
LSU Fan
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
37637 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
We had a thread or two here on the PT board, years ago...


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180
MrLarson
Auburn Fan
Member since Oct 2014
23700 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
Get the fire extinguishers ready, BamaAtl will be coming in hot AF.
This post was edited on 3/5 at 2:54 pm


SSpaniel
Memphis Fan
Germantown
Member since Feb 2013
11256 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

Get the fire extinguishers ready, BamaAtl will be coming in hot AF.


That's probably an understatement.

That's right in the middle of BamaAtl's wheelhouse. Disinformation about guns.


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272
HonoraryCoonass
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2005
11357 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people, and make it something that’s not cool, that it’s not acceptable, it’s not hip to carry a gun anymore, in the way in which we changed our attitudes about cigarettes. We have to be repetitive about this. It’s not enough to have a catchy ad on a Monday and then only do it Monday. We need to do this every day of the week, and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way.


SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
Chair
Member since Nov 2012
7629 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people, and make it something that’s not cool, that it’s not acceptable, it’s not hip to carry a gun anymore, in the way in which we changed our attitudes about cigarettes. We have to be repetitive about this. It’s not enough to have a catchy ad on a Monday and then only do it Monday. We need to do this every day of the week, and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way.


You can start in Hollywood. They are the worst offenders of glorified gun violence.


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430
BACONisMEATcandy
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2007
45869 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

it’s not hip to carry a gun anymore


I don't carry because I think it's hip


Errerrerrwere
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2015
21906 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
So, we should give up our rights and 500k- 3M people being saved by defensive gun ownership because 16,000 people die of gun violence every year?

Makes a lot of sense...


Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
90893 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
I remember it. The CDC actually declared gun violence a disease because it caused an epidemic. They successfully got 'Is there a gun in your house?' placed on forms for new patients.

They did the same thing with 'Do you suffer from spousal abuse?' Most nurses skip over the question if you don't look beat up. I called one on it when I got a colonoscopy. She relented:
"OK, Mr. Zach, do you suffer from spousal abuse?"
Me: "Yes."
Her: "I'm not writing that down because I don't believe you."
This is why spousal abuse goes undetected.


GeauxxxTigers23
USA Fan
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
51783 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people, and make it something that’s not cool, that it’s not acceptable, it’s not hip to carry a gun anymore, in the way in which we changed our attitudes about cigarettes. We have to be repetitive about this. It’s not enough to have a catchy ad on a Monday and then only do it Monday. We need to do this every day of the week, and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way.


So you want to ban violent video games and movies. Cool


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120
TigerMyth36
River Ridge
Member since Nov 2005
36399 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
You aren't allowed to eat cheese so that qualifies as abuse.


roadGator
Florida Fan
Member since Feb 2009
88525 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

just really brainwash people


Hello Mr. Stalin.


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81
crazy4lsu
USA Fan
Member since May 2005
21922 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

So again, carrying a gun responsibly is a net positive to victims of crime in most cases.



I will read this report tonight, but there was an ecological study published in 2015 in the American Journal of Preventative Medicine called "Firearm Ownership and Violent Crime," which measured state-level rates of ownership and violent crime rates, and could not find evidence that suggested the that gun ownership served as a deterrent to criminal activity. From it's discussion:

quote:

This study tested the hypothesis that private firearm ownership at the state level serves as a deterrent to criminal activity, with firearm ownership measured by a nationally representative self-report survey and crime measured by official law enforcement agency reports. These results do not support the hypothesis that higher rates of firearm ownership are associated with lower firearm-related assault, robbery, or homicide rates. To the contrary, evidence was found for a positive association, in which states with greater levels of private firearm ownership experienced greater rates of firearm-related violent crimes.


This report doesn't seem to have any methodology that I can tell, and seems to be written primarily to direct areas of future research. The report even acknowledges the difficulty in estimating how many lives were saved through defensive use of guns.

quote:

The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.


I'll find the Kleck report from 2001 which contains the estimate and see how they came to that extrapolation.



SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
Chair
Member since Nov 2012
7629 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

This report doesn't seem to have any methodology that I can tell, and seems to be written primarily to direct areas of future research. The report even acknowledges the difficulty in estimating how many lives were saved through defensive use of guns.


You aren't going to find any reliable statistics on this figure because defensive use often goes unreported. Even something as simple as brandishing a firearm at a criminal is enough of a deterrent without firing a shot. The number could be well into the millions.


therick711
Chicago Cubs Fan
South
Member since Jan 2008
21929 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

with firearm ownership measured by a nationally representative self-report survey


That would seem to me to be a big problem with the study.


crazy4lsu
USA Fan
Member since May 2005
21922 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:


You aren't going to find any reliable statistics on this figure because defensive use often goes unreported. Even something as simple as brandishing a firearm at a criminal is enough of a deterrent without firing a shot. The number could be well into the millions.


The 500,000 to 3 million figure is based on an extrapolation of national surveys. Finding the justification for that extrapolation is always important and worthwhile in my view.


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33
crazy4lsu
USA Fan
Member since May 2005
21922 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

That would seem to me to be a big problem with the study.



For the one in the Am.J of Pre. Med? It can be. But that's the study sample itself. From the Methods:

quote:

Data were aggregated on household firearm ownership and criminal perpetration in each of the 50 states for the years 2001– 2002 and 2004 (the only years with available state-level firearm ownership data). State-level data on firearm ownership were taken from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS), a large, nationally representative, annual survey of the U.S. population, administered by CDC.15 BRFSS includes 4200,000 respondents annually and provides representative national- and state-level prevalence estimates for health-related behaviors and risk factors. In each of the years 2001, 2002, and 2004, BRFSS included this question: Are any firearms now kept in or around your home? Include those kept in a garage, outdoor storage area, car, truck, or other motor vehicle (the 2004 survey did not include the second sentence). This question was not administered in California in 2002 or Hawaii in 2004; therefore, these state–year observations were excluded from the analysis. When generating state-level estimates, the survey design was taken into consideration by specifying the primary sampling units and the sampling weights (denoting the inverse of the probability that the observation is included), to ensure accuracy.16


Without a consistent method to track state-wide and nationwide gun ownership, we will always rely on the self-reported surveys, which in this case comes from a system developed by the CDC.


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12
Clames
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2010
8508 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

I will read this report tonight, but there was an ecological study published in 2015 in the American Journal of Preventative Medicine called "Firearm Ownership and Violent Crime," which measured state-level rates of ownership and violent crime rates, and could not find evidence that suggested the that gun ownership served as a deterrent to criminal activity.


AJAM, like the vast majority of medical publications, is pro-gun-control. They would never publish a study that said otherwise.

John Lott has studied the same topic exhaustively, in far more detail and has continued to update his research as more data has come available and has drawn the opposite conclusion. Gun-control advocates have created a cottage industry in discrediting Lott but they have never been able to argue against the data or his methodologies.


WildTchoupitoulas
Oscillating Fan
Member since Jan 2010
29782 posts

re: Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
quote:

I got a colonoscopy

On a positive note, I hear they found your head.

Congrats!


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