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Message
Obama's CDC study on Firearms.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 3/5/18 at 2:48 pm
Does anyone remember the time that Obama issued an Executive Action for the CDC to study Firearms?
Probably most people don't remember it because it did not paint a very good picture for gun grabbers.
The entire study is here for anyone interested:
LINK
Some of my favorite findings from this study:
So we have 10-20,000 murders by firearms per year in the USA, but this study concludes that anywhere from 500,000 to 3 million lives are saved by someone with a firearm per year. Sounds to me like if you removed the right of people to carry guns you'd be condemning a lot of people to death.
So they've admitted that Violence and Gun Violence are both on the decline despite this next part:
So, violent crime down - gun ownership up. Sweet.
So again, carrying a gun responsibly is a net positive to victims of crime in most cases.
I wonder why this study never saw the light of day on CNN or MSNBC?
Probably most people don't remember it because it did not paint a very good picture for gun grabbers.
The entire study is here for anyone interested:
LINK
Some of my favorite findings from this study:
quote:
Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).
So we have 10-20,000 murders by firearms per year in the USA, but this study concludes that anywhere from 500,000 to 3 million lives are saved by someone with a firearm per year. Sounds to me like if you removed the right of people to carry guns you'd be condemning a lot of people to death.
quote:
Although overall crime rates have declined in the past decade and violent crimes, including homicides specifically, have declined in the past 5 years (FBI, 2011a), crime-related deaths involving firearms remain a serious threat. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI’s) Uniform Crime Reporting Program, 68,720 people were murdered in firearm-related violence between 2007 and 2011. During that same time frame, firearms accounted for more than twice as many murders as all other weapons combined (FBI, 2011b). More than two-thirds of victims murdered by a spouse or ex-spouse died as a result of a gunshot wound (Cooper and Smith, 2011).
So they've admitted that Violence and Gun Violence are both on the decline despite this next part:
quote:
Guns are widely used for recreation, self-protection, and work in the United States. However, it is difficult to determine the exact number and distribution of guns currently in homes and communities due to lack of data. Between 1986 and 2010, the domestic production of firearms increased by 79 percent, firearm exports increased by 11 percent, and firearm imports increased by 305 percent (ATF, 2012). A December 2012 poll found that 43 percent of those surveyed reported having a gun in the home (Gallup, 2013).
So, violent crime down - gun ownership up. Sweet.
quote:
A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004). Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings.
So again, carrying a gun responsibly is a net positive to victims of crime in most cases.
I wonder why this study never saw the light of day on CNN or MSNBC?
This post was edited on 3/5/18 at 3:03 pm
20
Posted on 3/5/18 at 2:50 pm to SidewalkDawg
that was the ultimate 'thread did not go as planned' for obama 
Posted on 3/5/18 at 2:51 pm to SidewalkDawg
We had a thread or two here on the PT board, years ago...
Posted on 3/5/18 at 2:53 pm to SidewalkDawg
Get the fire extinguishers ready, BamaAtl will be coming in hot AF.
This post was edited on 3/5/18 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 3/5/18 at 2:55 pm to MrLarson
quote:
Get the fire extinguishers ready, BamaAtl will be coming in hot AF.
That's probably an understatement.
That's right in the middle of BamaAtl's wheelhouse. Disinformation about guns.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:00 pm to SidewalkDawg
What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people, and make it something that’s not cool, that it’s not acceptable, it’s not hip to carry a gun anymore, in the way in which we changed our attitudes about cigarettes. We have to be repetitive about this. It’s not enough to have a catchy ad on a Monday and then only do it Monday. We need to do this every day of the week, and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:04 pm to HonoraryCoonass
quote:
What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people, and make it something that’s not cool, that it’s not acceptable, it’s not hip to carry a gun anymore, in the way in which we changed our attitudes about cigarettes. We have to be repetitive about this. It’s not enough to have a catchy ad on a Monday and then only do it Monday. We need to do this every day of the week, and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way.
You can start in Hollywood. They are the worst offenders of glorified gun violence.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:05 pm to HonoraryCoonass
quote:
it’s not hip to carry a gun anymore
I don't carry because I think it's hip
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:06 pm to SidewalkDawg
So, we should give up our rights and 500k- 3M people being saved by defensive gun ownership because 16,000 people die of gun violence every year?
Makes a lot of sense...
Makes a lot of sense...
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:07 pm to SidewalkDawg
I remember it. The CDC actually declared gun violence a disease because it caused an epidemic. They successfully got 'Is there a gun in your house?' placed on forms for new patients.
They did the same thing with 'Do you suffer from spousal abuse?' Most nurses skip over the question if you don't look beat up. I called one on it when I got a colonoscopy. She relented:
"OK, Mr. Zach, do you suffer from spousal abuse?"
Me: "Yes."
Her: "I'm not writing that down because I don't believe you."
This is why spousal abuse goes undetected.
They did the same thing with 'Do you suffer from spousal abuse?' Most nurses skip over the question if you don't look beat up. I called one on it when I got a colonoscopy. She relented:
"OK, Mr. Zach, do you suffer from spousal abuse?"
Me: "Yes."
Her: "I'm not writing that down because I don't believe you."
This is why spousal abuse goes undetected.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:08 pm to HonoraryCoonass
quote:So you want to ban violent video games and movies. Cool
What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people, and make it something that’s not cool, that it’s not acceptable, it’s not hip to carry a gun anymore, in the way in which we changed our attitudes about cigarettes. We have to be repetitive about this. It’s not enough to have a catchy ad on a Monday and then only do it Monday. We need to do this every day of the week, and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:11 pm to Zach
You aren't allowed to eat cheese so that qualifies as abuse.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:20 pm to HonoraryCoonass
quote:
just really brainwash people
Hello Mr. Stalin.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:25 pm to SidewalkDawg
quote:
So again, carrying a gun responsibly is a net positive to victims of crime in most cases.
I will read this report tonight, but there was an ecological study published in 2015 in the American Journal of Preventative Medicine called "Firearm Ownership and Violent Crime," which measured state-level rates of ownership and violent crime rates, and could not find evidence that suggested the that gun ownership served as a deterrent to criminal activity. From it's discussion:
quote:
This study tested the hypothesis that private firearm ownership at the state level serves as a deterrent to criminal activity, with firearm ownership measured by a nationally representative self-report survey and crime measured by official law enforcement agency reports. These results do not support the hypothesis that higher rates of firearm ownership are associated with lower firearm-related assault, robbery, or homicide rates. To the contrary, evidence was found for a positive association, in which states with greater levels of private firearm ownership experienced greater rates of firearm-related violent crimes.
This report doesn't seem to have any methodology that I can tell, and seems to be written primarily to direct areas of future research. The report even acknowledges the difficulty in estimating how many lives were saved through defensive use of guns.
quote:
The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.
I'll find the Kleck report from 2001 which contains the estimate and see how they came to that extrapolation.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:27 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
This report doesn't seem to have any methodology that I can tell, and seems to be written primarily to direct areas of future research. The report even acknowledges the difficulty in estimating how many lives were saved through defensive use of guns.
You aren't going to find any reliable statistics on this figure because defensive use often goes unreported. Even something as simple as brandishing a firearm at a criminal is enough of a deterrent without firing a shot. The number could be well into the millions.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:28 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
with firearm ownership measured by a nationally representative self-report survey
That would seem to me to be a big problem with the study.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:30 pm to SidewalkDawg
quote:
You aren't going to find any reliable statistics on this figure because defensive use often goes unreported. Even something as simple as brandishing a firearm at a criminal is enough of a deterrent without firing a shot. The number could be well into the millions.
The 500,000 to 3 million figure is based on an extrapolation of national surveys. Finding the justification for that extrapolation is always important and worthwhile in my view.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:34 pm to therick711
quote:
That would seem to me to be a big problem with the study.
For the one in the Am.J of Pre. Med? It can be. But that's the study sample itself. From the Methods:
quote:
Data were aggregated on household firearm ownership and criminal perpetration in each of the 50 states for the years 2001– 2002 and 2004 (the only years with available state-level firearm ownership data). State-level data on firearm ownership were taken from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS), a large, nationally representative, annual survey of the U.S. population, administered by CDC.15 BRFSS includes 4200,000 respondents annually and provides representative national- and state-level prevalence estimates for health-related behaviors and risk factors. In each of the years 2001, 2002, and 2004, BRFSS included this question: Are any firearms now kept in or around your home? Include those kept in a garage, outdoor storage area, car, truck, or other motor vehicle (the 2004 survey did not include the second sentence). This question was not administered in California in 2002 or Hawaii in 2004; therefore, these state–year observations were excluded from the analysis. When generating state-level estimates, the survey design was taken into consideration by specifying the primary sampling units and the sampling weights (denoting the inverse of the probability that the observation is included), to ensure accuracy.16
Without a consistent method to track state-wide and nationwide gun ownership, we will always rely on the self-reported surveys, which in this case comes from a system developed by the CDC.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:40 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I will read this report tonight, but there was an ecological study published in 2015 in the American Journal of Preventative Medicine called "Firearm Ownership and Violent Crime," which measured state-level rates of ownership and violent crime rates, and could not find evidence that suggested the that gun ownership served as a deterrent to criminal activity.
AJAM, like the vast majority of medical publications, is pro-gun-control. They would never publish a study that said otherwise.
John Lott has studied the same topic exhaustively, in far more detail and has continued to update his research as more data has come available and has drawn the opposite conclusion. Gun-control advocates have created a cottage industry in discrediting Lott but they have never been able to argue against the data or his methodologies.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 3:41 pm to Zach
quote:
I got a colonoscopy
On a positive note, I hear they found your head.
Congrats!
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