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Nate Silver Explains Who the DSA supporters are.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:14 am
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:14 am
Nate Silver has some rather interesting data on who the Democratic Socialists are and why they are at odds with minorities. No recap but I highlighted the good points to save you the trouble of reading it all.
Substack
Substack
quote:
As a result of contentious Democratic primaries in Michigan, Maine, and New York, I’ve been reading a lot of conversation about the role that class plays in voting patterns in the United States. In these primaries, candidates like Graham Platner and Abdul El-Sayed who are associated with democratic socialism often claim to have the mandate of the working class. But in practice, their strengths tend to be with college-educated voters. Even before his scandals, Platner wasn’t particularly doing better among voters without college degrees than previous (losing) Democratic nominees in Maine. El-Sayed has relatively weak support from Black voters in polls, meanwhile.
But does that make them hypocrites? For what it’s worth, they certainly both have interesting backstories. Platner didn’t graduate from college, but came from a fairly privileged background. I don’t think it would be unfair to classify him as “downwardly mobile.” El-Sayed is in some ways the polar opposite: a first-generation American who went to a good public school in suburban Detroit and is obviously a high-achieving person....
I’m reminded here of Peter Turchin’s elite overproduction hypothesis. It basically argues that America is producing “too many” college graduates relative to the number of high-prestige, well-paying jobs available to them. People who wind up in this situation often carry heavy student loan burdens or other sorts of debt. Even if their material situation is objectively “just fine,” it’s rarely great. They’re gloomy about their own financial prospects, and feel aggrieved about the state of the country. Their class status is ambiguous: privileged in some senses, but they’re part of the “have-nots” in other meaningful ways.
What would be ideal here, to get closer to the notion of class, is if we had data on voters’ family backgrounds. Did they grow up rich or poor? Were their parents white-collar or blue-collar? Did they go to a private high school? Unfortunately, you’ll rarely, if ever, see this sort of question in political surveys, even ones as comprehensive as the CES....
Based on this grid, what is the most Democratic voting group in America? It’s voters with postgraduate degrees but lower-to-middle household incomes of $30K to $60K per year.
This is very much also the sweet spot for the DSA. In the group’s most recent member survey in 2021, 80 percent of members aged 25 or older had bachelor’s degrees, but 45 percent had household incomes below $60,000 per year.
This is unusual, because education and income are usually substantially positively correlated. In the composite CES data, only 19 percent of Americans with bachelor’s degrees or higher had household incomes of $60K or below. The DSA rate is around twice that. These voters aren’t necessarily “blue collar” in the sense of working with their hands. But that doesn’t mean they’re privileged. Common occupations among DSA members include teachers, non-profit workers, social workers, and public sector employees....
By contrast, who are the most Republican voters in the country? It’s not necessarily voters with a lot of “economic anxiety”. Rather, it’s the precise opposite corner from the DSA: high-earners who didn’t attend college. About 60 percent of voters with a high school education or less, but whose households earned incomes of $60,000 or above, preferred Trump to the various Democratic presidential candidates. (You can probably think of various stereotypical professions here too: small business owners, independent contractors, real estate developers, used-car dealers, etc.)
While it’s true that Black voters are not a monolith, their preferences are notably more uniform than for whites — and mostly very blue. But what’s the most Democratic Black voting group? You guessed it — Black voters with graduate degrees earning $30K to $60K per year. In fact, with 95 percent of voters who meet this description voting for Democrats, it’s probably the most D subgroup in the entire voter universe....
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:21 am to prplhze2000
This is one of those situations where there is a literal mountain of data (that we are awarding kids too many college degrees, not necessarily that we're over-educating people) that certain groups will continue to ignore and dishonestly spin.
The debt situation, devaluation of a degree, the economic reality of salaries combining both of these things, the disenfranchisement, the aura of false superiority of those who have credentials, the cognitive dissonance of having a degree without the intelligence they believe it projects, etc.
It's something I've been arguing on here basically since I started posting. We've reduced the minimum requirements for college and just destroyed the entire concept. My original POV was the incredibly ridiculous minimum requirements for TOPS in LA. I remember a story from high school (this is probably 1999 or 2000) where I went to an inner city high school who had their top GPA students on this celebratory board, displayed at the entrance of the school....and the highest ACT was like 21....which I got in 7th grade.
The debt situation, devaluation of a degree, the economic reality of salaries combining both of these things, the disenfranchisement, the aura of false superiority of those who have credentials, the cognitive dissonance of having a degree without the intelligence they believe it projects, etc.
It's something I've been arguing on here basically since I started posting. We've reduced the minimum requirements for college and just destroyed the entire concept. My original POV was the incredibly ridiculous minimum requirements for TOPS in LA. I remember a story from high school (this is probably 1999 or 2000) where I went to an inner city high school who had their top GPA students on this celebratory board, displayed at the entrance of the school....and the highest ACT was like 21....which I got in 7th grade.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:26 am to prplhze2000
quote:
voters with graduate degrees earning $30K to $60K per year
Imagine having a graduate degree and making 30 grand a year. Yikes.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
My original POV was the incredibly ridiculous minimum requirements for TOPS in LA.
Yeah, but the requirements for TOPS were still higher than most college entrance requirements (except LSU). When tuition was dirt cheap, that meant we were subsidizing even more low scoring student than we are now.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:30 am to BigJim
Except we've opened the floodgates by changing societal/cultural perception:
And the min requirements for lesser students are mid to high level prestige universities have cratered
And the min requirements for lesser students are mid to high level prestige universities have cratered
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:32 am to KemoSabe65
These kids are doing what they were told and going to college to get a degree with an expectation they will become or continue as part of at minimum the upper middle class elite of the United States.
When that flames out they are stuck with only one option for their ego to still feel superior. And thats cultural/social elitism.
Basically, they couldn’t hack it in a capitalistic meritocracy so they latch onto collectivism to maintain at least a moral sense of superiority to other humans.
I think it’s basic ego survival even before you get into any sort of established human social or class war. They just want to feel superior like the majority of us and are latching onto the easiest path they come across.
When that flames out they are stuck with only one option for their ego to still feel superior. And thats cultural/social elitism.
Basically, they couldn’t hack it in a capitalistic meritocracy so they latch onto collectivism to maintain at least a moral sense of superiority to other humans.
I think it’s basic ego survival even before you get into any sort of established human social or class war. They just want to feel superior like the majority of us and are latching onto the easiest path they come across.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:34 am to KCSilverTiger
quote:
Imagine having a graduate degree and making 30 grand a year. Yikes.
A lot of public school teachers get graduate degrees as they’re incentivized to do so, often with the state paying for it.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:41 am to prplhze2000
How many of these college graduates went into secondary education without a clear career plan of employment in mind? I would guess most of them. The world doesn't owe you a damn thing for locking yourself into a mountain of debt by mindlessly jumping into a non-demand or low-paying career path.
Being bitter over your own short-sightedness isn't everyone else's problem.
Being bitter over your own short-sightedness isn't everyone else's problem.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:43 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Except we've opened the floodgates by changing societal/cultural perception:
Very true. Cannot even argue against this
Yet, try to tell that to a parent today and they think it is doing a disservice to their child and that all college degrees mean more money for the child.
American born blue collar needs a resurgence.
Edit to say, do not even post that graphic on the OT. It would be akin to a violent crime.
This post was edited on 7/22/26 at 8:45 am
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:44 am to UtahCajun
quote:
American born blue collar needs a resurgence.
The opportunity is there.
quote:
Yet, try to tell that to a parent today and they think it is doing a disservice to their child and that all college degrees mean more money for the child.
There is a reason people dismiss IQ data
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:48 am to kingbob
teachers with masters or better are probably north of 60K, given years of experience, so not in the 30-60k population. Exception might be very poor school districts, but I don't know how much of the salary is paid by state vs local funding
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:48 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we are awarding kids too many college degrees,
Absolutely this /\
A lot of 'college degree' is now just like being in a snobbish fraternity - good for each other at the frat parties, but worthless otherwise.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 8:51 am to prplhze2000
All of that smart-boy bs. I all he had to say was extremely liberal SJW's with worthless degrees and exorbitant student loan pay backs from Ivy and Little Ivy's working as Kroger Stockers
Posted on 7/22/26 at 9:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
quote:
American born blue collar needs a resurgence.
The opportunity is there.
This is the working version of NIMBY. It's fine for your kids, but not mine.
As someone that worked in pipe fab shops and turnarounds before I went to college, it is a hard career. It's tough on the body and if you have any higher intelligence, tough to deal with idiot supervisors on a power trip because they are friends with the boss.
We really should be structuring high schools not only for college, but also for students that just aren't cut out for college and give them training in various trades so they have an idea of what to do after high school.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 9:22 am to LSUSUPERSTAR
quote:
This is the working version of NIMBY. It's fine for your kids, but not mine.
As someone that worked in pipe fab shops and turnarounds before I went to college, it is a hard career. It's tough on the body and if you have any higher intelligence, tough to deal with idiot supervisors on a power trip because they are friends with the boss.
I'm not saying this in any mean way, but those with higher intelligence should be going to college or more advanced trades (like tech-relate fields with certifications that don't require a degree). The point of the argument is that college has been swelled with kids who shouldn't be there.
Arguing the kids who should be in college are too good for the lower-level trades isn't really arguing against the point/theme.
quote:
We really should be structuring high schools not only for college, but also for students that just aren't cut out for college and give them training in various trades so they have an idea of what to do after high school.
I think that still exists today.
It's not like your basic, non-advanced high school path is much different than the past.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 9:23 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
We've reduced the minimum requirements for college and just destroyed the entire concept.
This is precisely correct. Too many universities have become diploma mills instead of true institutions of higher learning. They've become corporations that need the money, and they're now filled with students that can barely read or write.
My son-in-law and daughter are both professors at a major university and are shocked at the writing levels of many of their students. It's appalling.
And yes, DSA is full of members with degrees that are barely employable. They show up with green hair, nose piercings, tattoos all over their arms and necks. They're surly. I can't hire them. I won't hire them. They're a distraction in the office, and I don't want them at my customer sites.
Posted on 7/22/26 at 9:26 am to Cimarron
quote:
My son-in-law and daughter are both professors at a major university and are shocked at the writing levels of many of their students. It's appalling.
I was in undergrad 25 years ago and I did a psychology minor and the easy psychology classes were filled with complete morons. Watching the same kids in "hard" psychology classes (which are like medium-low level difficulty classes overall) have their brains melt was shocking. And this was 20-25 years ago. Same with the arts major science classes.
Funny enough, the easiest classes I ever took were all filled by smart people (who knew how to find the easy classes). Intro to theater, TYFYS
Posted on 7/22/26 at 9:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I'm not saying this in any mean way, but those with higher intelligence should be going to college or more advanced trades (like tech-relate fields with certifications that don't require a degree). The point of the argument is that college has been swelled with kids who shouldn't be there.
America has shifted from a manufacturing economy to a services economy, but as you say, a lot of those college grads are not well suited for services economy and there aren't enough jobs in Class A offices where people make $100K or more. No one wants to work in a factory, because we're a competitive society and parents push their kids for greater achievement.
I often listen to people in interviews talking about their family background. A lot will talk about their dad "working in a factory" or as some sort of day laborer. It's positioned in a way that makes the child, now a high earning individual in the services economy, as having moved up and surpassed the father. And at the most basic level, that's true. The child has surpassed their father or mother economically. However, this is not a benign development for society overall. We end up being dishonest with kids about their real potential, and it's contributed to the collapse of our manufacturing base.
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