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re: (Memo) Trump and GOP to come out against Alabama court ruling regarding IVF
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:01 pm to dafif
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:01 pm to dafif
quote:
So when the baby is implanted and does not take who is responsible for murder?
What kind of stupid question is this? Are you under the impression that miscarriages are being prosecuted?
quote:
I swear the educational age of this board hovers around the sixth grade
You are definitely a reflection of that.
1
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:07 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
The Alabama Supreme Court didn't create law here. The legislature is simply passing a law that changes the definition to mean an embryo already in a uterus. Previous law said an embryo "wherever it exists."
The problem with this approach is that both the majority opinion of the Alabama Supreme Court, and the concurrences, cited the Alabama Constitution as amended in 2022 as a basis for the opinion. The Constitution of Alabama, according to the Supreme Court of Alabama, prohibits treating embryos differently than 16 year old children. Any attempt to treat them differently based solely upon where they may be found would likely be in violation of the Alabama Constitution, rendering any attempted saving legislation unconstitutional in Alabama.
What this Supreme Court would have to do is to change its interpretation of the Alabama Constitution in order to avoid having an unpopular issue in the upcoming elections. If they have any integrity at all, they will invalidate any contrary statute as unconstitutional.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:09 pm to TBoy
A radical leftist talking about integrity is funny.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:10 pm to roadGator
You know I'm correct.
Actually, it is more likely that you haven't read the opinion and are just pretending to know something.
Actually, it is more likely that you haven't read the opinion and are just pretending to know something.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:11 pm to TBoy
I’m correct. You, as a radical leftist should never mention the word integrity. Never.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:12 pm to Eurocat
Even the GOP clown car can see this IVF ruling is a fricking train wreck. 
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:25 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:But the GOP cannot fix the wedge.quote:It's the correct ruling. The "fix" the legislature is going to pass is fine.
The more support it gets, the bigger a wedge it becomes.
On one hand, you will have party faithful who fully believe that life begins at conception. That's been the battle cry for decades: "Life Begins at Conception!" (Conception = Life)
On the other hand, you will have Trump and the "sensible" Republicans who believe that fertilized eggs are not life. (Conception =/= Life)
How do you reconcile those two sides?
Either life begins at conception or it doesn't.
It seems likely that a stopgap explanation will be provided (e.g., conception + implantation = life) to muffle the fundamentalists and the issue will be minimized as much as possible for the good of the party.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:25 pm to cwill
Trump is going to have to drag the Republican party kicking and screaming into the 21st century and across the finish line if we're ever going to win. I thought his statement was well put and effective.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:27 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
That sermon from the Chief Justice is theocratic.
Fify
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:53 pm to Eurocat
Good. Tom Parker is a fricking moron for injecting religion into the opinion.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 5:00 pm to bricksandstones
quote:
Trump is going to have to drag the Republican party kicking and screaming into the 21st century and across the finish line if we're ever going to win. I thought his statement was well put and effective.
On social issues, I don't disagree.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 5:11 pm to dafif
quote:
So when the baby is implanted and does not take who is responsible for murder?
This would be the baby selected after all the embryos with less desirable traits have been culled out? Or all the babies implanted simultaneously with the expectation that several of them won’t take, or if multiples do take, that are selectively aborted out?
Good question. How about all those embryos that don’t take because the mother uses birth control to prevent their implantation?
Birth control, IVF, surrogacy, all are fraught with these moral issues.
You didn’t bother to answer the second question. If we agree that a baby is a baby before or after birth, if the baby is not a baby at fertilization, at what arbitrary point after fertilization do we suddenly recognize it as a human being?
Posted on 2/23/24 at 5:24 pm to TBoy
quote:
The problem with this approach is that both the majority opinion of the Alabama Supreme Court, and the concurrences, cited the Alabama Constitution as amended in 2022 as a basis for the opinion. The Constitution of Alabama
Amending the Constitution of Alabama is how laws are passed in Alabama. What you're saying is not different from what I said.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 2/23/24 at 5:25 pm to Jack Bauers HnK
quote:
You didn’t bother to answer the second question. If we agree that a baby is a baby before or after birth, if the baby is not a baby at fertilization, at what arbitrary point after fertilization do we suddenly recognize it as a human being?
Looks like the Alabama legislature is going to go with "when it is implanted in a uterus."
Posted on 2/23/24 at 5:29 pm to Eurocat
Good. The Alabama law is stupid and extreme
Posted on 2/23/24 at 6:02 pm to deltaland
quote:
Good. The Alabama law is stupid and extreme
Not really, they just should have anticipated this and worded it better.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 6:13 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
they just should have anticipated this
I think we are going to start hearing that phrase a lot with regards to Republicans and the changes to reproductive laws.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 6:13 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
I think we are going to start hearing that phrase a lot with regards to Republicans and the changes to reproductive laws.
I'm okay with that. Abortion should be illegal. If it takes some amending to get the wording right, fine.
ETA: I also think it's hilarious that people think Roe v Wade has anything to do with this beyond the ALGOP banning abortions. How did Roe v Wade block any state from banning IVF? I don't recall that ever being mentioned previously.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 6:18 pm
Posted on 2/23/24 at 6:19 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
Abortion should be illegal. If it takes some amending to get the wording right, fine.
The problem with that is if you outlaw abortion (any willful action that destroys a competent embryo) and start prosecuting moms over it, birth control also becomes illegal.
One of the ways birth control works is by preventing fertilized embryos from implanting on the uterus. I don't see how destruction of a fetus in the womb is different than killing an embryo during implantation.
If you think the publicity around this was bad about IVF wait until birth control becomes illegal months before a national election.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 6:20 pm
Posted on 2/23/24 at 6:20 pm to Eurocat
Alabama is so backwards they would try and execute the CEO of the freezer manufacturer if it malfunctioned.
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