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Started By
Message
re: Megyn Kelly — Alien Enemies Act is not subject to judicial review.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:01 am to SammyTiger
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:01 am to SammyTiger
quote:
The act has never been used before outside a declaration of war.
You keep saying this as if it matters
2
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:03 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
You keep saying this as if it matters
It doesn’t
But it’s relevant that there is no legal precedent to defend what he’s doing.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:04 am to Reagan80
quote:
Is a Venezuelan gang member who has been convicted of murder, human trafficking or drug dealing eligible for immigration to the US?
Likely not.
I don't know if that's relevant to the discussion/statute, though.
quote:
If he doesn’t apply for a visa and crosses illegally, is he subject to deportation or is he safe from deportation?
He can be deported. Nobody is arguing that they're not subject to normal, even expedited deportation proceedings.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:04 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
You keep saying this as if it matters
It matters in a discussion about the jurisprudence being cited
We have no jurisprudence, as far as I can tell, over the way this statute was used.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:06 am to SammyTiger
Where in Trump's Proclomation does he say that all Venezuelans are subject to removal?
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
Dont play dumb. It doesn't matter as a condition of invocation of the act itself.
It may matter if its a condition of the "not subject to judicial review" ruling Kelly is referencing - if that is indeed something the DOJ intends to argue.
It may matter if its a condition of the "not subject to judicial review" ruling Kelly is referencing - if that is indeed something the DOJ intends to argue.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:09 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
And analyzing that within the limitations of the statute is where the courts come in.
But, what if the information that leads him to believe that is classified
Does the JB have the ability to determine whether or not congress can declare war? If not, they should also not have the ability to determine if the executive branch can declare a "foreign invasion" has occurred.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 11:18 am
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:hilarious coming from a shitty divorce lawyer
And she knows this, but she's making that money.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:12 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
It doesn't matter as a condition of invocation of the act itself.
The jurisprudence matters in judging if the invocation was legal.
All the cases we have on this law involve situations that are super easy in this regard (as the invocation used the separate "Declared war" clause when we had a Congressional declaration of war), while this current situation is a bit more complicated and nuanced, with a lot more subjectivity involved for courts to analyze.
The admin is claiming THIS portion of the analysis is also "not subject to review", which would be quite a major jurisprudential decision. The case they keep citing even analyzed the underlying conditions to ensure proper application of the law by the President, that analysis was just simple (for reasons stated above).
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:13 am to JimEverett
quote:
Where in Trump's Proclomation does he say that all Venezuelans are subject to removal?
that’s how the AEA works.
we have to be invaded by a foreign nation or government.
Trump is saying we are being invaded by Venezuela by TDA and if that happens the president can deport anyone from that nation.
If so, he can deport any Venezuelan that isn’t a US citizen under the AEA.
He doesn’t need to prove they’re TDA. which is why he’s trying to use the AEA.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 11:18 am
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:15 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Does the JD have the ability to determine whether or not congress can declare war? I
No, That's a specific Constitutional power of Congress.
That's not what the admin is using to invoke this law, however.
quote:
If not, they should also not have the ability to determine if the executive branch can declare a "foreign invasion" has occurred.
Unlike declaring war, this is not a listed Constitutional authority of Congress. The authority regarding invasions is created via their statutory authority, which IS subject to judicial review, like all other laws.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:18 am to SammyTiger
quote:
that’s how the AEA works.
we have to be invaded by a foreign nation or government.
Trump is saying we are being invaded by Venezuela by TDA.
If so, he can deport any Venezuelan that isn’t a US citizen under the AEA.
He doesn’t need to prove they’re TDA. which is why he’s trying to use the AEA.
all of this is just factually wrong. maybe its time to sit this one out.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:20 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
all of this is just factually wrong. maybe its time to sit this one out.
no it’s factually correct.
if you have any real argument you can make it, but i can defend everything I said line by line.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 11:21 am
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:21 am to SammyTiger
Read Trunp's invocation of the AEA.
The invading force is state-sponsored gangs. Subject to removal under Trump's invocation of the AEA are not Venezuelans in general but rather members of those gangs.
The AEA requires a specification of who is subject to removal/capture, and in this case is clear that not all Venezuelans are subject to removal/capture.
The invading force is state-sponsored gangs. Subject to removal under Trump's invocation of the AEA are not Venezuelans in general but rather members of those gangs.
The AEA requires a specification of who is subject to removal/capture, and in this case is clear that not all Venezuelans are subject to removal/capture.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 11:23 am
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:26 am to JimEverett
quote:
The invading force is state-sponsored gangs. Subject to removal under Trump's invocation of the AEA are not Venezuelans in general but rather members if those gangs.
The AEA does not allow the president to remove gangs.
i’m not saying it’s a bad thing to remove gangs, but that’s not what the AEA does.
quote:
all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being males of the age of fourteen years and upwards, who shall be within the United States, and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured and removed, as alien enemies.
The TDA isn’t a government. So if they’re an extension of the venezuelan government then we’re being invaded by Venezuela. and thus all venezuelan’s are on the chopping block.
again the act was never about fighting the invading force. it was about rounding up any foreign nationals living in america that might join or aid their countrymen
that are invading the US.
and IF the TDS is determined to be a “government” the. the court would be able to rule on whether an individual is a member of said government.
The alternative reading is that the AEA allows the president unreviewable power to declare an invasion and make determination of who is a member of the invading nation. Which means he could say where being invaded by china, and then say your chinese’s and boot you out. regardless of the facts without review.
whats not reviewable is what the president decides to do with the foreign aliens when the act is in effect.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 11:31 am
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:32 am to SammyTiger
we've been through this all already. how many times do we need to cover this?
Maybe. Some level of affiliation to an ruling foreign government probably must exist, but in this case we have that. TdA is directly linked to Maduro, who we currently have under sanctions. They were released from prison by Maduro and sent here by Maduro.
He's leveraging the AEA, I suspect, to bypass bureaucratic immigration hearings for the most violent and dangerous of those the state department has deemed terrorist groups.
quote:
we have to be invaded by a foreign nation or government.
Maybe. Some level of affiliation to an ruling foreign government probably must exist, but in this case we have that. TdA is directly linked to Maduro, who we currently have under sanctions. They were released from prison by Maduro and sent here by Maduro.
quote:No, he didnt.
Trump is saying we are being invaded by Venezuela by TDA.
quote:No he cant. He can, however, deport anyone from anywhere who is here from any country, as long as they are here in violation of US law.
If so, he can deport any Venezuelan that isn’t a US citizen under the AEA.
quote:
He doesn’t need to prove they’re TDA. which is why he’s trying to use the AEA.
He's leveraging the AEA, I suspect, to bypass bureaucratic immigration hearings for the most violent and dangerous of those the state department has deemed terrorist groups.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:34 am to Vacherie Saint
(no message)
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:34 am to SammyTiger
The AEA is clear that it is the President's Proclomation that controls
The AEA allows him to deport/capture, etc aliens from an invading country but does not require it. The Proclomation controls, and the President very clearly limited it to members of gangs, not to Venezuelans as a whole.
Your position requires the Proclomation to be virtually meaningless yet the statute makes it clear it is the Proclomation which controls.
quote:
The President is authorized in any such event, by his proclamation thereof, or other public act, to direct the conduct to be observed on the part of the United States, toward the aliens who become so liable; the manner and degree of the restraint to which they shall be subject
The AEA allows him to deport/capture, etc aliens from an invading country but does not require it. The Proclomation controls, and the President very clearly limited it to members of gangs, not to Venezuelans as a whole.
Your position requires the Proclomation to be virtually meaningless yet the statute makes it clear it is the Proclomation which controls.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:40 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Maybe. Some level of affiliation to a ruling foreign government probably must exist, but in this case we have that.
what do you mean maybe? That’s the language of the statute.
“ any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government”
it doesn’t say “group affiliated with a foreign nation or government”
quote:
No he cant. He can, however, deport anyone from anywhere who is here from any country, as long as they are here in violation of US law.
No he absolutely could.
If the government of Venezuela is sending a armed force to invade the united states, the AEA gives the president the power to apprehend, restrain and remove “ all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government”
In this case venezuelans would be subject of the venezuelan government.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:45 am to SlowFlowPro
Sincere question
Are you more concerned with the executive branch, and Trump specifically overreaching on their authority/interpretation of the law/constitution
Or
The judicial system using politicized lawfare to prevent/impede the executive branch based on an opposing political ideology?
Are you more concerned with the executive branch, and Trump specifically overreaching on their authority/interpretation of the law/constitution
Or
The judicial system using politicized lawfare to prevent/impede the executive branch based on an opposing political ideology?
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