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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.

Posted on 11/25/25 at 3:21 pm to
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4340 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 3:21 pm to
Istrebin is incorrect here as to the building on fire. The second hit at Tagenrog last night turned out to be a furniture warehouse. The missile missed its intended target, which is the NATEK Neftekhimmash manufacturing facility next door.

But Istrebin correctly shows the high value of this target, so I'm thinking there won't be any volunteers in that workforce for nightshift overtime now...


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Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42611 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

Already replied to you on that grandpa


I see now. That isn’t really a plan. Way too many indeterminables.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42611 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

The issue is that fundamentally, the Ukrainians do not feel they are losing.


They are losing land slowly, but surely. They are losing men and women. Many of their people are being crippled, maimed, or left hungry or cold.

Billions of dollars are being spent to protect themselves instead of being spent to improve their status of life.

But a lot of this could be said about Russia. They aren’t losing land, but they are losing more people than Ukraine and their economy is really being hurt.

It’s apparent to me that both sides have very good reasons to sign a peace deal, but I can’t see Ukraine leaving themselves unprotected; nor can I see them giving away land that thousands died to defend and that Russia has failed to take.

I criticized Trump yesterday, but I may have jumped to conclusions. We may be genuinely trying to mediate this thing and not ram a bad deal down Ukraine’s throat.




Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4340 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 3:44 pm to
Yep, as anticipated, Dmitriev's ploy of leaking the 28-point plan written by the Kremlin and unquestionably accepted by Witkoff has backfired. Lavrov crawls out from his rock:

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Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8364 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

That isn’t really a plan


Didn't claim it was a "plan"
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4340 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 4:00 pm to
Posted by Leopold
Columbia
Member since Sep 2013
2299 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 4:45 pm to
quote:

I think Ukraine should give up more than they would really like to now to end this and try to salvage their future population as best they can


People think the Ukrainians aren't willing to give up land - they are. Consistent polling on the Ukrainian side shows they'd happily give up the land if they had actual security guarantees, something the Russians consistently say they won't allow. So, again, the problems aren't with the Ukrainians, it with the Russians and their obvious damands of neutering the Ukrainians military, not allowing American weapons on European land, etc.

The problem is squarely with the Russians.

quote:

There's a good guy in this and a bad guy


People who think this way will never accomplish anything in regards with Russia unless you are willing to send in NATO troops to crush them.


We've tried the 'nuanced' version of this. Multiple presidents from both sides of the isle tried it that way and it was pointless and humiliating for them. It's led to the Russians starting 10 wars and conducting open genocide in front of our eyes. It's led to the constant comparisons to WWII that you so understandably are tired of.

If you think that Putin is anything other than a soulless killer, you haven't been paying attention. It's time to put the Russians in their place and make sure they know the West is sick of their shite and that can be accomplished by actually giving the Ukrainians the support and guarantees that nobody seems to be willing to do.

Posted by Leopold
Columbia
Member since Sep 2013
2299 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 4:51 pm to
quote:

More down votes than upvotes. The Ukucks demand more blood


I don't want more blood. I want the West to back the security guarantees that the Ukrainians know they have to have to end this thing, or to actually start backing the Ukrainians in a genocidal invasion that is going to lead to WW III.
Posted by T1gerNate
Member since Feb 2020
3327 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 5:18 pm to
Apparently confirmed by ISW. Ukraine is in a lot of trouble on the Zaporizhia front.


Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
41307 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 5:24 pm to
quote:

or to actually start backing the Ukrainians in a genocidal invasion that is going to lead to WW III.


Doesn’t matter. A Dem administration that many here voted for let this invasion happen.

The majority of Americans do not want the US deeply involved in this war. If that’s a problem then simply fly to Ukraine and fight.
Posted by Leopold
Columbia
Member since Sep 2013
2299 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 5:39 pm to
The Russians were going to invade anyway, that should be clear by now.

And no, the majority of Americans are clearly behind the Ukrainians right now.




This post was edited on 11/25/25 at 5:41 pm
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15692 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 5:43 pm to
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15692 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 5:45 pm to
Yet Lavrov has been notably absent for over a month. Either there is something of an internal spat between Lavrov and Putin or between Putin and the elite.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5647 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 6:02 pm to
just before Zelenskyy's meeting with Trump...

Witkoff Discusses Ukraine Plans With Key Putin Aide: Transcript

Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8364 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 6:03 pm to
quote:

And no, the majority of Americans are clearly behind the Ukrainians right now.



The majority of Americans actually don't want to support Ukraine for "as long as it takes" per polling done but the university of Maryland.

When asked about aid amounts, the largest amount of respondents said that current aid levels were "too much".

The majority of Americans support Ukraine in a narrative sense, but in terms of actual actions in supporting them it's much more mixed.

And the questions on that survey weren't exactly neutral either.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20970 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 6:21 pm to
Sad news for Russia's railway system:

Reuters

Russia weighs how to prop up Russian Railways which is $51 billion in debt


quote:

MOSCOW, Nov 25 (Reuters) - Russia's government is discussing different ways to prop up Russian Railways, the country's biggest commercial employer, which has built up a 4 trillion rouble ($50.8 billion) debt pile, two people with knowledge of the matter told Reuters.

State-owned Russian Railways, which employs about 700,000 people, has suffered a fall in revenues amid a sharp slowdown in Russia's war economy while debt costs have soared, driven by the highest interest rates in two decades.


quote:

It was unclear what the final decision of the government would be as there were differences of opinion on what to do between representatives of the finance, economy, transport and trade ministries, one of the sources said.
quote:

For 2024, Russian Railways reported revenues of 3.3 trillion roubles and expenditure of 2.8 trillion roubles under international standards.

In its financial statement for the first six months of 2025, the company reported net debt of 3.3 trillion roubles as of June 30, including 1.8 trillion roubles of short-term debt.

It was not clear why the debt had soared about 0.7 trillion roubles in just half a year.


Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20970 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 6:37 pm to
Is Witkoff really a Russian spy? If not, what would the difference be?

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Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15692 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 6:43 pm to
Pretty much what my Russian friend predicted in 2022.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8364 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 6:54 pm to
quote:

Pretty much what my Russian friend predicted in 2022.


The one who you gave enough identifiable information about for the Russians to easily identify, but you didn't want to just say the name because you were worried about his parents? Or is this a different one?
Posted by Leopold
Columbia
Member since Sep 2013
2299 posts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 7:43 pm to
quote:

Is Witkoff really a Russian spy?


I genuinely believe he is.

Witkof went to the negotiations without a translator and used one provided by the Kremlin. (LOL here's the wikipedia page on him, it's got his name in cyrillic: Steve Witkof)

You might believe he's stupid, but no. The man is incredibly successful and that includes the international market. In no universe does this man go into an international negotiation with his own money on the line and not bring his own translator.

He's got to be a Russian agent, I honestly see no other explanation.
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