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Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:36 am to Auburn1968
Did you get those old F-16s running in the desert?
Ukraine is hanging in the balance comrade
Ukraine is hanging in the balance comrade
Posted on 11/25/25 at 12:02 pm to doubleb
quote:
US and Ukrainian delegations reportedly narrowed down the initial US-proposed 28-point peace plan to 19 points.
Okay, so that takes away the parts the Europeans never agreed to and the open bribe to the US. Smart play by the Ukrainians.
The point I would be worried about if I were the Ukrainians would be the 600k limit on their military but I'm guessing either they have a plan for that in the negotiations or they simply know that the original treaty proposal was a non-starter in the first place. Perhaps it was GOP_Tigers idea that they simply go around the limit with a Reserve force and go to 1M, but I say that's inviting trouble.
To be clear - I'm not against a peace proposal. But peace isn't going to come unless it's made absolutely, positively clear to the Russians that all hell is going to break loose if they attempt to invade the Ukrainians for any reason in the next century.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 12:45 pm to Leopold
The biggest issue with the first peace plan was that Russia's battlefield performance does not suggest they have the room to ask Europe to do anything. I can understand the maximalist approach, but doing so in the middle of a war which has shown Russia to be barely competent in combined arms is a hilarious juxtaposition. As they try to grind through village after village, they certainly do not have the leverage that the US seems to insist they have in the immediate sense.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 12:52 pm to texag7
Posted on 11/25/25 at 1:07 pm to Leopold
quote:
The point I would be worried about if I were the Ukrainians would be the 600k limit
I read somewhere that Ukraine countered with an 800K limit.
Apparently the initial proposal had been the framework to further negotiations. Now the ball is in Putin’s court.
I predict he rejects it and spins things to blame Ukraine and Europe.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 1:13 pm to doubleb
quote:
Now the ball is in Putin’s court.
I predict he rejects it and spins things to blame Ukraine and Europe.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 1:44 pm to doubleb
quote:
So please tell us what your solution is.
I think Ukraine should give up more than they would really like to now to end this and try to salvage their future population as best they can, and avoid potentially even worse terms forced on them at a later date should the front start to buckle and collapse.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 1:48 pm to Leopold
quote:
There's a good guy in this and a bad guy
People who think this way will never accomplish anything in regards with Russia unless you are willing to send in NATO troops to crush them.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 1:49 pm to CitizenK
quote:
I do stand corrected but there are nuances
Now about that person you completely made up...
Posted on 11/25/25 at 1:50 pm to texag7
quote:
Trump just ended the Ukraine War
More down votes than upvotes. The Ukucks demand more blood
Posted on 11/25/25 at 1:53 pm to texag7
quote:
No Colors and GOP_Tiger assured me Ukraine would not cede one acre.
I think one of them used the term "impossible" for the prospect
Posted on 11/25/25 at 2:00 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
I think one of them used the term "impossible" for the
I’m glad you popped back in.
Could you share your solution to the war?
Posted on 11/25/25 at 2:05 pm to doubleb
Already replied to you on that grandpa
Posted on 11/25/25 at 2:17 pm to cypher
Built during war, shattered overnight — Kyiv distribution center hit hard by Russian strike
November 25, 2025 9:31 pm
Law enforcement officers inspect a crater next to the heavily damaged Novus supermarket logistics hub following Russian missile and drone strikes in Kyiv, Ukraine, on Nov. 25, 2025. (Oleksii Filippov / AFP via Getty Images)
A Russian missile attack overnight on Kyiv destroyed operations at a distribution center of Ukrainian supermarket chain Novus built during the full-scale invasion, killing four drivers and forcing the facility to shut down.
In a written statement to the Kyiv Independent, the company said that its 50,000-square-foot warehouse suffered "significant" damage in the attack. The news that the warehouse belonged to Novus was first reported by Forbes Ukraine.
"This center has been essential to ensuring uninterrupted daily deliveries to our stores. Built and launched during the full-scale invasion, it stands as a symbol of resilience, progress, and our long-term commitment to Ukraine," the company wrote.
The four drivers who were killed worked for Novus’ suppliers. A further five people were injured, the company said. For now, Novus is still assessing the cost of the damages but noted that the victims are an "irreplaceable loss."
The Kyiv Independent
November 25, 2025 9:31 pm
Law enforcement officers inspect a crater next to the heavily damaged Novus supermarket logistics hub following Russian missile and drone strikes in Kyiv, Ukraine, on Nov. 25, 2025. (Oleksii Filippov / AFP via Getty Images)
A Russian missile attack overnight on Kyiv destroyed operations at a distribution center of Ukrainian supermarket chain Novus built during the full-scale invasion, killing four drivers and forcing the facility to shut down.
In a written statement to the Kyiv Independent, the company said that its 50,000-square-foot warehouse suffered "significant" damage in the attack. The news that the warehouse belonged to Novus was first reported by Forbes Ukraine.
"This center has been essential to ensuring uninterrupted daily deliveries to our stores. Built and launched during the full-scale invasion, it stands as a symbol of resilience, progress, and our long-term commitment to Ukraine," the company wrote.
The four drivers who were killed worked for Novus’ suppliers. A further five people were injured, the company said. For now, Novus is still assessing the cost of the damages but noted that the victims are an "irreplaceable loss."
The Kyiv Independent
Posted on 11/25/25 at 2:32 pm to cypher
Key three difference remain in US-Ukraine "peace deal" – CNN
Oleh Pavliuk, STANISLAV POHORILOV — 25 November, 21:35
CNN has reported, citing a Ukrainian source with direct knowledge of the talks, that the United States and Ukraine have reached consensus on most of the issues in the proposed US "peace plan" but that differences have remained between them.
Source: European Pravda citing CNN
Details: The CNN source said that Kyiv and Washington have reached "consensus" on most points but that there are at least three important areas where differences remain.
The first concerns a US proposal to surrender to Russia some Ukrainian territories that Russia has not captured. The CNN source said that a decision had not yet been reached on this issue.
"It would be very wrong to say we have now the version that is accepted by Ukraine", the source said.
The source also said that there is a disagreement over a proposal to limit the size of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to 600,000: a new figure was put forward during the talks but Kyiv wants further changes before it would be prepared to agree.
The CNN source also described as unacceptable a demand that Ukraine abandon its ambition to become a NATO member. Such a concession would set a "bad precedent" by effectively giving Russia a veto over NATO, "which it is not even a member of".
Ukrainska Pravda
Oleh Pavliuk, STANISLAV POHORILOV — 25 November, 21:35
CNN has reported, citing a Ukrainian source with direct knowledge of the talks, that the United States and Ukraine have reached consensus on most of the issues in the proposed US "peace plan" but that differences have remained between them.
Source: European Pravda citing CNN
Details: The CNN source said that Kyiv and Washington have reached "consensus" on most points but that there are at least three important areas where differences remain.
The first concerns a US proposal to surrender to Russia some Ukrainian territories that Russia has not captured. The CNN source said that a decision had not yet been reached on this issue.
"It would be very wrong to say we have now the version that is accepted by Ukraine", the source said.
The source also said that there is a disagreement over a proposal to limit the size of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to 600,000: a new figure was put forward during the talks but Kyiv wants further changes before it would be prepared to agree.
The CNN source also described as unacceptable a demand that Ukraine abandon its ambition to become a NATO member. Such a concession would set a "bad precedent" by effectively giving Russia a veto over NATO, "which it is not even a member of".
Ukrainska Pravda
Posted on 11/25/25 at 2:56 pm to cypher
quote:
"The Ukrainians have agreed to the peace deal," the U.S. official told CBS News. "There are some minor details to be sorted out but they have agreed to A peace deal."
Good move... notice, they agreed to A peace deal, not the one offered by the US... so now Russia gets to be unreasonable and unwilling to seriously negotiate.
Rinse, Repeat
Posted on 11/25/25 at 2:58 pm to Lee B
quote:
Good move... notice, they agreed to A peace deal, not the one offered by the US... so now Russia gets to be unreasonable and unwilling to seriously negotiate.
Who are they convincing? World leaders know the game here. The western public mostly has its opinions baked and out of the oven on Ukraine already at this point... If you're still passionate about them you're still going to support them, if not you won't.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 2:59 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
I think Ukraine should give up more than they would really like to now to end this and try to salvage their future population as best they can, and avoid potentially even worse terms forced on them at a later date should the front start to buckle and collapse.
The issue is that fundamentally, the Ukrainians do not feel they are losing. They have repeated this time and again, which can lead to a couple of options. That they are as divorced from battlefield realities as the Russians appear to be or that they have some other leverage which we are not considering. I think the likelihood that we get nations like Poland and France involved is more likely than the Ukrainians capitulating completely.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 3:05 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
The issue is that fundamentally, the Ukrainians do not feel they are losing.
They have reasons to think that if they don't look at the entire picture.
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