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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 10:27 am to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 11/24/25 at 10:27 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Russia had absolutely zero problem with NATO setting up in Finland. Russia knows that NATO poses zero threat, except to its imperial ambitions.
NATO already borders Russia. It is intellectually dishonest to think NATO in Ukraine somehow is more of a danger than NATO in Poland, Finland, and the Baltic States.
Repeating Russian propaganda over and over doesn’t make it correct.
This post was edited on 11/24/25 at 11:21 am
2
Posted on 11/24/25 at 10:45 am to doubleb
President Trump's two favorite pro-Ukrainian European politicians are on their way to DC. The dance continues.
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Posted on 11/24/25 at 10:57 am to VolSquatch
quote:
quote:
1.) Russia will never accept a Western military presence in Ukraine; and
Would we ever accept a Russian military presence in Mexico?
No, and we shouldn't.
Or Cuba or Venezuela?
Posted on 11/24/25 at 11:04 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Well, now they have a deal. Zelensky and company were smart enough to know that it doesn't really matter what's on this paper that was just agreed to.
What will now happen is that Russia will completely refuse to stop fighting, they will insist on retaking all of the Donbas, and Trump will look like a chump again, and he'll get mad at Russia and up the sanctions and maybe give Ukraine some Tomahawk missiles.
Trump has indeed been very erratic on this whole ball of wax. So has this board in many cases.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 11:17 am to GOP_Tiger
Mexico was in the Soviet sphere for decades from before WWII. The reason that Pan America discovered oil in Venezuela was because Mexico nationalize its oilfields in Mexico after the Trotskyites came into power. Pan America had refineries in at least Texas City, TX and St. Rose, LA.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 12:07 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Would we ever accept a Russian military presence in Mexico?
No, and we shouldn't.
I'll give the Russians this one. No rational country (not that they are one) in Russia's position would accept this.
But this one point alone doesn't change anything, and that's that the Russians can't be trusted anymore and there needs to be solid security guarantees specifically codified and in place before anything is signed.
I think we just need to accept the idea that this war is not close to being over without something seriously changing, such as the Russian or the Ukrainian governments collapsing. At this point in time my money would be on the Russian government collapsing first, but who knows.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 12:13 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
"Trump has completely botched this by not ending it"
That's not what he said. He said:
"I find it incredible how he has completely botched this thing, and how he has made himself look like Putin’s stooge."
Everyone knows Trump has backed Putin in this thing, and while I can see a rationale for doing this (outside of wanting to take over the damned world together) it was a fundamentally stupid thing to do, even without ending the war.
I, and others, don't blame Trump for not ending it, and I certainly don't blame him for the war. I blame him for botching the peace process and backing the psychotic dictator throwing his own people out of windows and into Ukrainian machine guns. Big difference.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 12:16 pm to doubleb
Hitler thought Neville Chamberlain was a "worm" for his appeasement effort.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 12:24 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Sending collectively something like half a trillion dollars worth of assistance isn't being serious about it? What do you propose they do?
The strategy was never to win, or to even end the war, which is absolutely what I propose they do. They have never even come out collectively and officially said "We want Ukraine to kick the Russians out." Maybe Poland or the Baltic States have said this, but certainly not the United States, or even Great Britain, which a number of people have criticized both the Biden and Trump administrations for.
Rather, the strategy under Biden was to bleed the Russians until they were unable to pose a serious threat to a UNITED NATO. You can see this by the aid that was given, which wasn't nearly enough and consisted mostly of the military equivalent of a Salvation Army donation - old tanks, old guns, old confiscated Soviet era equipment. Money that was called 'aid' was just replenishing the old stuff we gave to the Ukrainians. Only the Air Defense Artillery weapons were state of the art because we needed to know if they work against Russian weapons. The good news? The sure as F do.
The strategy under Trump has been to throw NATO out of our house, sell out the Ukrainians, and when that didn't go as planned to extort them and take advantage of them. You can call that 'ending the war' if you want, but I don't agree with that at all.
But in no way, shape, or form was the goal to end the war. Just take advantage of the situation, and the two last presidents are both to blame here.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 12:30 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
That almost caused a nuclear war, and it was no where even close to the level of presence there would be in Ukraine.
The Russian presence in Cuba was in response to American nukes in Italy and Turkey, which the Russians weren't happy with BUT did not even tell their own people about, because they didn't want to cause global panic. Krushev's deal was that he would not put Russian nukes in Cuba IF the US removed the nukes in Italy and Turkey... nobody knew they were there, thus nobody knew they were removed. Krushev "won" that crisis, Kennedy ultimately screwed himself by making it a big deal and having to remove US nukes... Krushev never made it public, and lost power for appearing weak. There's a lesson in leadership there... and I honestly think Krushev should be re-evaluated overall... not that he wasn't a Communist leader, just that he might have been the Communist leader that was the most benevolent, along with Gorbachev (and ultimately doomed the Soviet Union by de-Stalinizing).
Posted on 11/24/25 at 12:31 pm to Lee B
Posted on 11/24/25 at 12:47 pm to Lee B
quote:
Newsweek: Russia Has Run Out of Money to Pay Its Soldiers—Regional Finance Minister
Did they run out of paper and ink?
Posted on 11/24/25 at 1:04 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Russia had absolutely zero problem with NATO setting up in Finland. Russia knows that NATO poses zero threat, except to its imperial ambitions.
Russia has a HUGE problem with Finland joining NATO... Russia considers Finland to be Russia, and tried to retake it in the Winter War in WWII. They screw with FInland all the time... but, they can't do anything about it, especially not at this point, and FInland was too strong for them to do much about them before that... but make no mistake, in the Kremlin's dream map Finland is once again part of the Empire, it's just probably dead last on what they could actually achieve in any event.
Reality is not the dominant thing in Russia's worldview. NATO is a defensive-only pact... they don't really believe that... standing in the way of their Imperial ambitions is "aggression" in their telling.
But yeah, Russia is much more threatened by EU memb ership for it's immediate neighboring former satellites. That would foment rebellion when they get more prosperous and the Kleptocratic Oligarchy is exposed.
This post was edited on 11/24/25 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 11/24/25 at 1:06 pm to Auburn1968
Posted on 11/24/25 at 1:12 pm to Leopold
quote:
The strategy was never to win, or to even end the war, which is absolutely what I propose they do. They have never even come out collectively and officially said "We want Ukraine to kick the Russians out." Maybe Poland or the Baltic States have said this, but certainly not the United States, or even Great Britain, which a number of people have criticized both the Biden and Trump administrations for.
The Pentagon thinks if Russia was outright militarily defeated by NATO, it would launch nukes in retaliation, which is their official doctrine. Just the typical sabre rattling?
Biden's goal was pretty much what you stated... incapacitate Putin in every way imaginable and make him no threat to anyone else... but then he still has those nukes to fire in spite, right?
Trump... I don't think he wants Russia to collapse or Putin out of power.
I think Trump doesn't want much to change regarding Russia, just the fighting in Ukraine to stop, then instantly right back to 2020 business as usual. I don't think that is possible... Trump's way of viewing everything as just a business deal is naive and dangerous.
This post was edited on 11/24/25 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 11/24/25 at 1:25 pm to Leopold
quote:
I blame him for botching the peace process
There is nothing to botch if Putin (and Z for that matter) don't approach it with a willingness to negotiate
quote:
backing the psychotic dictator throwing his own people out of windows and into Ukrainian machine guns
*American made* machine guns, potentially
Posted on 11/24/25 at 1:32 pm to Leopold
quote:
Everyone knows Trump has backed Putin in this thing, and while I can see a rationale for doing this (outside of wanting to take over the damned world together) it was a fundamentally stupid thing to do, even without ending the war.
Trump's "America First" viewpoint is a resuscitation of Linderg's America First ... The US controls this hemisphere (The Americas) and whoever else can seize Europe, Africa and Asia and do whatever they want with it... focus military power internally to control the population. This site is full of people wishing for this to work out.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 1:40 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
There is nothing to botch if Putin (and Z for that matter) don't approach it with a willingness to negotiate
Initially Trump said if Putin wouldn’t negotiate then he’d load Ukraine up with what they needed.
Since then he’s been all over the map. He’s taken Russia’s side, he has jumped back on Ukraine’s side, and then back again; but he’s never been able to get the two parties in a room to really negotiate.
He’s put on some elaborate shows to highlight himself, but he repeatedly reversed himself.
The more he talks the worse he looks.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 1:42 pm to Lee B
quote:
Trump's "America First" viewpoint is a resuscitation of Linderg's America First
America first should always be the policy, but it can’t be America only.
We need other nations, and we need other nations to behave themselves.
Posted on 11/24/25 at 1:48 pm to VolSquatch
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