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Started By
Message
re: Kyle Rittenhouse Jury Deliberation Day 3: Reported Jury is done deliberating for the day
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:45 am to Broadside Bob
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:45 am to Broadside Bob
quote:
Had he not bought the gun or broken curfew, he would not be in this situation. Does he not bear some responsibility, moral if not legal (and I get that the law may create technical issues that may make "legal" different from "moral")?
The gun charge against him was thrown out so that is irrelevant. But if we are saying he should not have had a gun, then you have to say the people he shot should not have assaulted a person with a gun. If they don't initiate the attack then that gun never gets used.
You can argue he should not have been out there but neither should the people that attacked him. So I feel like that point is irrelevant. So again, if they don't attack him they are likely still alive and well today.
My only concern is what happened in the confrontations. Who instigated, what was the motivation for attacking KR, and did he go out of his way to shoot anybody that wasn't a threat? To me, all of those check off as clear self-defense. He gave a warning to Rosenbaum but Rosenbaum kept pursuing him, he fled to the police, he did not shoot anybody else until he was attacked from behind in the street, he hesitated firing at Grosskreutz until Grosskreutz pulled his gun, and he could have shot others in the street around him but did not because they retreated.
I put the responsibility for the outcome solely on those that instigated the attack.
0
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:46 am to Bamafan24
Question about a hung jury. Does that mean exactly 50/50 or can it mean one or two holdouts and because whatever decision they made wasn’t unanimous it’s considered "hung"?
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:46 am to roadGator
quote:
Too bad lefty survived.
He also missed "Jumpkick Man," unfortunately.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:46 am to TBoy
If this is looking like a hung Jury then I expect this trial will take another wild twist. The judge is keeping the alternates jurors in the deliberations and I suspect the he could be aware of possible juror "activism" taking place.
A retrial does not work in the favor of anyone in this case. The prosecution will have new problems in a second trial because by then the Zaminiski's and jump kick man would be available for witness testimoney. The prosecution kept them out of this trial for a reason.
The defense has to go through more time and expenses. Rittenhouse's life get put on hold longer.
The city of Kenosha has to continue to battle with the circus of protesters that this case brings with it.
I think the Judge takes an unprecedented effort to make sure this does not end with a hung jury. The prosecution will not raise any issue with any decision the Judge makes to make sure it not a hung jury.
A retrial does not work in the favor of anyone in this case. The prosecution will have new problems in a second trial because by then the Zaminiski's and jump kick man would be available for witness testimoney. The prosecution kept them out of this trial for a reason.
The defense has to go through more time and expenses. Rittenhouse's life get put on hold longer.
The city of Kenosha has to continue to battle with the circus of protesters that this case brings with it.
I think the Judge takes an unprecedented effort to make sure this does not end with a hung jury. The prosecution will not raise any issue with any decision the Judge makes to make sure it not a hung jury.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:46 am to imjustafatkid
True. Still. Not bad shooting under duress.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:47 am to DavidTheGnome
Only takes one to be hung. Unanimous to convict or acquit.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:47 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Question about a hung jury. Does that mean exactly 50/50 or can it mean one or two holdouts and because whatever decision they made wasn’t unanimous it’s considered "hung"?
Haven't looked at Wisconsin law on jury verdicts, but judge said acquittal and conviction both had to be unanimous.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:48 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Question about a hung jury. Does that mean exactly 50/50 or can it mean one or two holdouts and because whatever decision they made wasn’t unanimous it’s considered "hung"?
Even one holdout is a "hung jury."
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:48 am to Broadside Bob
quote:
Does he not bear some responsibility, moral if not legal (and I get that the law may create technical issues that may make "legal" different from "moral")?
Who gives a frick about moral rectitude or whatever you’re whining about? This is a murder trial, and in that context no, he bears no responsibility simply by virtue of being present.
This post was edited on 11/18/21 at 8:51 am
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:49 am to imjustafatkid
quote:after finding out his race now, this was the best possible outcome.
He also missed "Jumpkick Man," unfortunately.
jury would NEVER vote not guilty if he had killed a black person too that night. they're looking after their own asses.
its insane we're on day 3 of deliberations for 3 of the scummiest criminals and low lifes to ever get what's coming to them.
This post was edited on 11/18/21 at 8:50 am
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:49 am to roadGator
quote:
True. Still. Not bad shooting under duress.
No doubt. The only person he missed had just kicked him straight in the face. He was probably concussed.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:51 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
He also missed "Jumpkick Man," unfortunately
On one level unfortunately, however on the level of not making tensions go nuclear that he shot a black guy…very fortunate he missed.
This post was edited on 11/18/21 at 8:52 am
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:52 am to fwtex
quote:
The defense has to go through more time and expenses. Rittenhouse's life get put on hold longer
Oh..money would be zero issue but need a responsible party to collect for Kyle this time. His life will never be normal just doesn’t need to be in jail.
No way city wants to go through this again with courts and costs and tearing their DA department in pieces.
Sadly..guilty is the best option for city. No telling how many other cases they have related to riots (most of which will disappear).
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:53 am to Crimson1st
quote:
On one level unfortunately, however on the level of not making tensions go nuclear that he shot a black guy…very fortunate he missed.
Missing jump kick man best thing he did.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:54 am to DavidTheGnome
Has to be all 12 jurors coming to one agreed verdict.
Also, no alternates are allowed to be a part of the deliberations of the 12. An alternate is never placed backed with the other 12 until called to replace one of the original.
Also, no alternates are allowed to be a part of the deliberations of the 12. An alternate is never placed backed with the other 12 until called to replace one of the original.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:56 am to riccoar
quote:
An alternate is never placed backed with the other 12 until called to replace one of the original.
Under what circumstances can this happen besides illness?
Posted on 11/18/21 at 8:58 am to TDTOM
If there is a hung jury won't there be a re-trial? I assume the POS prosecution would definitely go for that.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 9:01 am to Broadside Bob
quote:
I agree that it's self-defense if you grant that Rittenhouse had as much right to be there as anyone else. If I were on the jury, I would definitely not convict on any kind of a pre-meditated homicide. However, he did purchase the gun illegally, right (though that would be a violation of federal, not state law, and this court would not have jurisdiction), and there was a curfew that night (Though obviously not enforced). Had he not bought the gun or broken curfew, he would not be in this situation. Does he not bear some responsibility, moral if not legal (and I get that the law may create technical issues that may make "legal" different from "moral")?
You can't hold him the only one responsible for disobeying the curfew. This is a stupid victim blaming argument.
If we talk about responsibility of actions, Kyle tried to defuse and run away from the situation. That was what he should've done.
What about the responsibility of the pedo Rosenbaum to see that Kyle was running away to defuse and remove himself from the situation....but pedo decides to chase him and lunges for his gun. Is he responsible for his actions.
Is Huber responsible for his actions when trying to bash his head with a skateboard?
Is "bicep" responsible for his actions in pointing his illegally possessed pistol at Kyle?
None of this would've happened had none of them been there. Victim blaming somebody in the act of self defense is sick.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 9:03 am to JackieTreehorn
quote:
If there is a hung jury won't there be a re-trial? I assume the POS prosecution would definitely go for that.
Unless the judge then declares mistrial with prejudice. Much thought that that is what he is doing. Hoping first that the jury does the right thing.
Posted on 11/18/21 at 9:03 am to JackieTreehorn
quote:No way to know. A lot goes into making that decision.
If there is a hung jury won't there be a re-trial?
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