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re: Judge rules Trump use of Alien Enemies Act for gangs is ‘unlawful’

Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:17 pm to
Posted by JimEverett
Member since May 2020
1337 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:17 pm to
I don't think so. To decide whether an actual invasion has occurred would violate separation of powers. That is not the role of the Courts.

And this Court acknowledges this when it wrote
quote:

And as previously explained, the political question doctrine prohibits the Court
from weighing the truth of those factual statements, including whether Maduro directs TdA’s actions or the extent of the referenced criminal activity. Instead, the Court determines whether the factual statements in the Proclamation, taken as true, describe an “invasion” or “predatory
incursion” for purposes of the AEA.


Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
17231 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:28 pm to
quote:

I would say that the odds of these gangs being armed and organized is pretty high.
A) it is easily proved they are armed.

B) they are specifically organized, intentionally organized, with a hierarchal command structure with penalties administered internally for not adhering to that hierarchal command structure.

And that includes when in custody/detention as further evidence that it is organized.

The cherry on top they take great efforts to avoid interpretation and/or interception, free and in custody, of their communications for further evidence they are organized.
Posted by Hognutz
Member since Sep 2018
2097 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:32 pm to
This is not the form of government our forefathers gave us. There's a remedy though.
Posted by Drizzt
Cimmeria
Member since Aug 2013
14334 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:35 pm to
At least we are finding out all the federal judges who should never be considered for a higher appointment.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
450394 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

To decide whether an actual invasion has occurred would violate separation of powers.


I don't know how we prevent this scenario in the quote in that scenario:

quote:

Allowing the President to unilaterally define the conditions when he may invoke the AEA, and then summarily declare that those conditions exist, would remove all limitations to the Executive Branch’s authority under the AEA,


The admin could literally define anything pursuant to the act and engage in otherwise illegal behaviors pretty easily.

quote:

Instead, the Court determines whether the factual statements in the Proclamation, taken as true, describe an “invasion” or “predatory
incursion” for purposes of the AEA.

And what if the statements are not true?
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
5088 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:46 pm to
will be rewritten and issued again.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
5088 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:50 pm to
The act itself was used by FDR and there was no invading force sent by a gov.

So yes. 1812 is the last time a foreign nation sent troops.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
450394 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

The act itself was used by FDR and there was no invading force sent by a gov.

No shite, because there was a declared war
Posted by JimEverett
Member since May 2020
1337 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 4:01 pm to
quote:

And what if the statements are not true?


It is a political question. The Executive and the Legislature can fight it out if there is political disagreement.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
5088 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 4:04 pm to
quote:

You may call it an invasion but that is not the typical meaning of that word.



invasion
noun
in·?va·?sion in-'va-zh?n
Synonyms of invasion
1
: an act of invading
especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder
2
: the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful





Posted by LSUSkip
Central, LA
Member since Jul 2012
22135 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 4:35 pm to
quote:

The difference is based primarily in intelligence and norms.


You are absolutely correct there, but I don't think we'd agree on the interpretation of your statement.
Posted by LSUSkip
Central, LA
Member since Jul 2012
22135 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 4:37 pm to
quote:

This is false. Venezuela intentionally sent TdA members to the US. This has been proven.


Hence the emphasis on letter of the law rather than intent. A Venezuelan gang isn't going to overthrow the US government, but that doesn't make them a non-threat to US citizens. Any foreign "gang" should qualify as a foreign enemy when they arrive on US soil en masse.
Posted by Stealth Matrix
29°59'55.98"N 90°05'21.85"W
Member since Aug 2019
9779 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

You're hopeful that the system of checks and balances fails?

The fact we're even discussing the judicial branch means the systems has failed.

The judiciary does not set laws.
Posted by EatnCreaux
Houston, TX
Member since Jan 2005
2346 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 5:10 pm to
quote:

nvasion typically and historically is in reference to military action. Not asylum seekers, some of whom I assume are good people.


You may call it an invasion but that is not the typical meaning of that word. The court has decided here that invasion is endorsed or enacted by a government or nation, rather than a gang.

So no.... an invasion has not occurred by that understanding. Again, you may feel differently but that's your issue.


What if hypothetically, there is historical and legal precedent where foreign invaders was a term applied to "pirates and barbarians"?
LINK
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
130835 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 5:14 pm to
quote:

Funny how one side can wordsmith someone into oblivion but when the other tries to get a little creative, it's unlawful.
------
The difference is based primarily in intelligence and norms.
WOW!
Based primarily in intelligence?



That is quite a perspective setter though.
Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
65908 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 5:27 pm to
quote:

As I said, I imagine most analyses will be similar to the ruling in OP.

Same analysis (textualism, historical analysis, etc.) and same result.

People just got so emotionally invested in this sort of stupidity Megyn Kelly — Alien Enemies Act is not subject to judicial review. and lost all rationality on the issue.

I had figured that for most people it was a foregone conclusion that this is where Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act for this purpose was going to wind up. This ruling isn't a shock, even coming from a Republican/Trump appointed judge. At least it is a ruling of sound legal interpretation that has standing and reason, as opposed to some of the others we've seen lately.

Let it work its way to the USSC and have them rule. It very well could go either way, and if Trump has smart people around him whichever way it goes won't be a surprise.
Posted by stampman
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
5037 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 8:00 pm to
quote:

Seriously Slo, no trolling on this. I know you have some serious & intelligent insight.



Posted by Deplorableinohio
Member since Dec 2018
6458 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 8:55 pm to
Don’t count on it.
Posted by Icansee4miles
Trolling the Tickfaw
Member since Jan 2007
30853 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 9:11 pm to
quote:

people who think they are smarter than they are


Pot meet Kettle
Posted by narddogg81
Vancouver
Member since Jan 2012
21248 posts
Posted on 5/1/25 at 9:16 pm to
I dont think a district court judge gets to tell the executive branch what is and isn't an invasion. Seems like it's completely outside the judicial branch purview, that's a matter of national security, foreign relations, etc. id tell this guy to stay in his fricking lane
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