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Started By
Message
re: Judge rules Trump use of Alien Enemies Act for gangs is ‘unlawful’
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:17 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:17 pm to SlowFlowPro
I don't think so. To decide whether an actual invasion has occurred would violate separation of powers. That is not the role of the Courts.
And this Court acknowledges this when it wrote
And this Court acknowledges this when it wrote
quote:
And as previously explained, the political question doctrine prohibits the Court
from weighing the truth of those factual statements, including whether Maduro directs TdA’s actions or the extent of the referenced criminal activity. Instead, the Court determines whether the factual statements in the Proclamation, taken as true, describe an “invasion” or “predatory
incursion” for purposes of the AEA.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:28 pm to TrueTiger
quote:A) it is easily proved they are armed.
I would say that the odds of these gangs being armed and organized is pretty high.
B) they are specifically organized, intentionally organized, with a hierarchal command structure with penalties administered internally for not adhering to that hierarchal command structure.
And that includes when in custody/detention as further evidence that it is organized.
The cherry on top they take great efforts to avoid interpretation and/or interception, free and in custody, of their communications for further evidence they are organized.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:32 pm to I20goon
This is not the form of government our forefathers gave us. There's a remedy though.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:35 pm to Jbird
At least we are finding out all the federal judges who should never be considered for a higher appointment.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:43 pm to JimEverett
quote:
To decide whether an actual invasion has occurred would violate separation of powers.
I don't know how we prevent this scenario in the quote in that scenario:
quote:
Allowing the President to unilaterally define the conditions when he may invoke the AEA, and then summarily declare that those conditions exist, would remove all limitations to the Executive Branch’s authority under the AEA,
The admin could literally define anything pursuant to the act and engage in otherwise illegal behaviors pretty easily.
quote:
Instead, the Court determines whether the factual statements in the Proclamation, taken as true, describe an “invasion” or “predatory
incursion” for purposes of the AEA.
And what if the statements are not true?
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:46 pm to Jbird
will be rewritten and issued again.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:50 pm to Y.A. Tittle
The act itself was used by FDR and there was no invading force sent by a gov.
So yes. 1812 is the last time a foreign nation sent troops.
So yes. 1812 is the last time a foreign nation sent troops.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 3:52 pm to BCreed1
quote:
The act itself was used by FDR and there was no invading force sent by a gov.
No shite, because there was a declared war

Posted on 5/1/25 at 4:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
And what if the statements are not true?
It is a political question. The Executive and the Legislature can fight it out if there is political disagreement.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 4:04 pm to atlgamecockman
quote:
You may call it an invasion but that is not the typical meaning of that word.
invasion
noun
in·?va·?sion in-'va-zh?n
Synonyms of invasion
1
: an act of invading
especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder
2
: the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful
Posted on 5/1/25 at 4:35 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The difference is based primarily in intelligence and norms.
You are absolutely correct there, but I don't think we'd agree on the interpretation of your statement.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 4:37 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
This is false. Venezuela intentionally sent TdA members to the US. This has been proven.
Hence the emphasis on letter of the law rather than intent. A Venezuelan gang isn't going to overthrow the US government, but that doesn't make them a non-threat to US citizens. Any foreign "gang" should qualify as a foreign enemy when they arrive on US soil en masse.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 5:09 pm to Bonkers119
quote:
You're hopeful that the system of checks and balances fails?
The fact we're even discussing the judicial branch means the systems has failed.
The judiciary does not set laws.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 5:10 pm to atlgamecockman
quote:
nvasion typically and historically is in reference to military action. Not asylum seekers, some of whom I assume are good people.
You may call it an invasion but that is not the typical meaning of that word. The court has decided here that invasion is endorsed or enacted by a government or nation, rather than a gang.
So no.... an invasion has not occurred by that understanding. Again, you may feel differently but that's your issue.
What if hypothetically, there is historical and legal precedent where foreign invaders was a term applied to "pirates and barbarians"?
LINK
Posted on 5/1/25 at 5:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:WOW!
Funny how one side can wordsmith someone into oblivion but when the other tries to get a little creative, it's unlawful.
------
The difference is based primarily in intelligence and norms.
Based primarily in intelligence?

That is quite a perspective setter though.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 5:27 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
As I said, I imagine most analyses will be similar to the ruling in OP.
Same analysis (textualism, historical analysis, etc.) and same result.
People just got so emotionally invested in this sort of stupidity Megyn Kelly — Alien Enemies Act is not subject to judicial review. and lost all rationality on the issue.
I had figured that for most people it was a foregone conclusion that this is where Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act for this purpose was going to wind up. This ruling isn't a shock, even coming from a Republican/Trump appointed judge. At least it is a ruling of sound legal interpretation that has standing and reason, as opposed to some of the others we've seen lately.
Let it work its way to the USSC and have them rule. It very well could go either way, and if Trump has smart people around him whichever way it goes won't be a surprise.
Posted on 5/1/25 at 8:00 pm to This GUN for HIRE
quote:
Seriously Slo, no trolling on this. I know you have some serious & intelligent insight.

Posted on 5/1/25 at 9:11 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
people who think they are smarter than they are
Pot meet Kettle
Posted on 5/1/25 at 9:16 pm to Jbird
I dont think a district court judge gets to tell the executive branch what is and isn't an invasion. Seems like it's completely outside the judicial branch purview, that's a matter of national security, foreign relations, etc. id tell this guy to stay in his fricking lane
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