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Started By
Message
re: Judge backs Houston hospitals decision to fire people without vaccine
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:18 am to the808bass
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:18 am to the808bass
quote:
Here’s the real issue. The vaccine doesn’t protect better than beating Covid. Something millions of people have done.
That kinda is up for debate.
I have seen lots of data saying that the vaccine helps more than a mild or asymptomatic infection with the virus.
But I have also seen data that says there is long term protection from even an asymptomatic infection of 6 months or more.
So, while a previous infection does grant protection, isn't it possible that the vaccine gives more protection?
1
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:23 am to tarzana
quote:
Methodist Hospital had a policy which required vaccination for healthcare staff. These employees were in direct insubordination to said policy, so yes the hospital had every right to fire them.
OK. Where does there ability to do so end?
Can they dictate that they smoke perhaps? Can they dictate that they are vegetarians? Can they dictate they have a pet dog or cat?
Remember this hospital takes substantial amounts of government money.
Maybe they should all be required to be alcoholics?
My point is that the hospital has long precedence for requiring flu vaccines, but these are fda approved.
While I agree that there is not as huge of a difference as some would want you to believe, the simple fact is these vaccines are not approved yet for anything but emergency use.
Obviously there is a limit to what these hopsitals can do, especially if they are receiving money from the government.
So where is that line? Because I am thinking they crossed that line unless someone tells me something different that makes snes.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:27 am to thetempleowl
Lynn Nettleton Hughes (born September 9, 1941) is a United States District Judge of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Texas. His federal judicial service has been hallmarked by being one of the most reversed judges in the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. His repeated misconduct was noted by the Fifth Circuit on May 6, 2021, in an appellate opinion that sua sponte reassigned the case in addition to reversing Judge Hughes. See United States v. Khan, __ F.3d __ (5th Cir. 2021).
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:27 am to NIH
He's a relic from Reagan. He still thinks the free market n sheitttt, didn't get the memo that big business just follow government wokeness these days.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:27 am to thetempleowl
quote:
So explain why this isn't.
There’s extensive precedent in terms of courts upholding vaccine requirements for school/work, and contrary to popular belief EUA in practice does not prevent a business from requiring the vaccine. I’ve posted the FDA statute in question below:
quote:
each individual must be informed of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product, of the consequences of refusing administration of the product, and of the alternatives to the product that are available and of their benefits and risks.
This has consistently been interpreted to mean that as long as the employee is aware of the consequences of refusing the vaccine, up to and including termination, those consequences can be enforced.
It also isn’t a violation of HIPAA as many suggest. This has nothing to do with HIPAA.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:28 am to thetempleowl
quote:
That kinda is up for debate.
No. It’s not.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:29 am to dgnx6
quote:
Most people do. But they shouldn't be forced.
I agree with you. I think I have stated that multiple times in the past.
I also however can say that almost everyone outside of young children would benefit for the vaccine.
quote:
The problem with democrats is they are dangling it in exchange for your freedom.
Well there are a great many problems with democrats. They like to say you can have some freedoms that you already had if you give up a bunch you previously had.
Its not exactly like you say.
quote:
People will push back even more.
yes they will. They are also the same freaking idiot people out there who said you can't trust the trump vaccine which are all of them.
Now they are saying these vaccines that biden has gotten to all of us are the greatest things ever.
Its such a fricking annoying load of crap.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:30 am to bamarep
Even if we ignore the 600K dead people. I, for one, am enjoying the return of all these concerts, and sporting activities, and nightlife, etc.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:31 am to thetempleowl
quote:
I mean what do they know. I mean they only went to school college for 4 years, medical school for 4 years, did a residency of between 3-5 years and may have done an extra one or 2 year fellowship to know this stuff.
Here’s what they don’t know. What the coronavirus vaccine does. What they learn during all of those years of education you listed, they learn to use controlled studies, data and evidence to make clinical decisions. This vaccine lacks the data and evidence necessary needed to make informed decisions. Those facts simply can’t be argued against.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:32 am to thetempleowl
quote:
It was a tiny percentage. Like 170 people in the large system.
They have 2598 posted positions. You know any hospitals not having trouble finding staff?
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:32 am to CDawson
quote:
I'm not sure how these two statements correlate to make you come to the conclusion of foolishness.
Just because the vaccines aren't fully approved by the fda doesn't mean we don't have the data.
And the data says you are foolish.
However, they are not fully fda approved. Not that this means much. But in the world of law, one would think you should follow the law.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:32 am to longwayfromLA
quote:
I, for one, am enjoying the return of all these concerts, and sporting activities, and nightlife, etc.
Lol. Clown.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:33 am to longwayfromLA
quote:
I, for one, am enjoying the return of all these concerts, and sporting activities, and nightlife, etc.
Bread and circuses
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:34 am to the808bass
quote:
Lol. Clown.
I suppose for a hermit loser like you it's all the same, right?
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:36 am to thebigmuffaletta
quote:
Like worrying over a virus with a 99.7% survival rate?
Yes, exactly like that.
The overall mortality rate is low but among certain groups it is higher.
However you have to look at the other side of the spectrum. What risks do you take on versus what benefits do you reap?
The risk is low for many people. But the benefits are very high for many people.
Lets say the risk of dying is 1 in 1000. Well, heck that number is low. However many such situations like this are made every day in life. Small differences.
Many small differences add up to big differences over the span of what I hope is long lives for you guys.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:36 am to longwayfromLA
I never stopped going places. You could’ve done the same. This wasn’t Ebola. It never would’ve been. You can pretend all you want.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:36 am to thetempleowl
quote:
However many such situations like this are made every day in life. Small differences.
We don’t shut down economies because of the danger of car crashes. That’s what we did for the coronavirus.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:37 am to thetempleowl
Several of the affected employees are probably minorities. They need to be front and center of the group and flip the narrative to why is the hospital targeting minorities.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:37 am to thetempleowl
quote:
Can they dictate that they smoke perhaps?
Yes, and many hospitals/healthcare entities now require their employees not smoke as a condition of employment. One of the facilities I see patients at even tests for metabolites of nicotine as part of their employee drug screen process.
quote:
Can they dictate that they are vegetarians? Can they dictate they have a pet dog or cat?
If they wanted to yes, though I’m not sure of the practical reasons why they would. These don’t involve federally protected classes though and so employees can be terminated on these basis in at will states.
quote:
Remember this hospital takes substantial amounts of government money.
That’s irrelevant in this context
quote:
Maybe they should all be required to be alcoholics?
Sure, but nobody would work there and nothing would get done if they did. But technically yes.
quote:
Obviously there is a limit to what these hopsitals can do,
With respect to private hospitals in the state of Texas (an at will state), they can fire employees for any reason as long as the reason isn’t in violation of federal discrimination law as defined by the various protected classes. The only caveat would be if they tried to fire an employee with a documented medial contraindication to getting the vaccine, as this could be a violation of the ADA. Other than that though, the court is correct in its ruling and the employees who don’t get it could largely be SOL. They’re welcome to find work elsewhere or get the vaccine.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:37 am to thetempleowl
170 here, 150 there, it all eventually adds up and even though the system has 20k people now you are asking those individuals to do the work of the 170 you fired until you hire new employees.
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