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Posted on 7/18/17 at 2:44 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Like what? I thought it was mainly due to be ostracized for lack of assimilation.
Well most of the Muslims in both Britain and France are former colonial subjects. French Algerians in particular dealt with the fallout of the Algerian War of Independence, which created a massive amount of bitterness in France, so much so that the OAS attempted to assassinate De Gaulle. Many Algerians already spoke French and the degree to which the French had to assimilate them was much smaller than Germany's issues with the Turks. The Algerians who arrived in the post-independence era were discriminated against in France, which created the current situation. At the same time, the French Algerians were not accepted in Algeria if they attempted to move back. Here is an article I've posted ad nauseam, but goes over the French Algerian situation fairly well. LINK
The British situation is different as the alienation doesn't have a specific history, but a more general one. It partly has to do with the fallen status of the British as imperial powers, and partly with alienation of those Muslims not feeling British or Pakistani (where a large percentage of Muslims in Britain are originally from). The common theme in each case of alienation is the retreat to Islam in lieu of a national identity. But how each group got there is different, and honestly worth studying.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 2:46 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
How is that crazy?
I was saying crazy4lsu's response
Posted on 7/18/17 at 2:50 pm to DabosDynasty
quote:
Wont his consolidation of power increase the likelyhood of his action beyond their boarders eventually, not next year, but down the road if my belief that the Germans and other area of Europe turn on the migrants?
Possibly, but the main competitors will be Iran, Israel, and the KSA, all of whom have regional aspirations, the character of each aspiration is different. And the shape that post-war Iraq takes will define the region, as if it becomes an Iranian proxy state, I think we are in for more conflict. If an independent Kurdistan is formed, that will preoccupy Turkey, as 20% of their population is Kurdish, and they are not interested in anything resembling autonomy.
I think if Erdogan is serious about his Neo-Ottoman ambitions, he will turn to the East rather than the West, and convince the West that only he can control the Islamists.
The geopolitical game is to control the West Asian corridor, which is a battle the Turks have fought in earnest since the 1300s. They've primarily fought the Persians, and I think it's likely there will be developing antagonism if both countries have regional aspirations.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 3:06 pm to crazy4lsu
I do think your assessment is most likely in the historical short term, again I do cede you are very knowledgeable on the area and it's nuances, much more than I am. The time frame I have in my mind for my original assertion is 20-30 years from now.
I normally have much closer time frames in mind with my thoughts, but I realize it's easy to get caught up in the feelings of the moment which normally have an urgent feeling, I think naturally. In the moment it seems like we're 5-10 years away, but that seems too soon. Things take longer to develop generally. All of this with a grain of salt of course, as I am far from an expert, but I do find the subject very interesting.
I normally have much closer time frames in mind with my thoughts, but I realize it's easy to get caught up in the feelings of the moment which normally have an urgent feeling, I think naturally. In the moment it seems like we're 5-10 years away, but that seems too soon. Things take longer to develop generally. All of this with a grain of salt of course, as I am far from an expert, but I do find the subject very interesting.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 3:12 pm to Tiger Prawn
quote:
Italian navy should just start catching the migrant boats offshore and towing them back towards the African coast. Once word gets around that migrant boats are being turned around and towed back to Africa, it won't be as appealing for more to try to cross the Mediterranean to begin with.
But what is stop military intervention if the Germans did decide they would push the issue.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 3:35 pm to volod
quote:
But what is stop military intervention if the Germans did decide they would push the issue.
Common sense. Italy is both an EU and NATO member. Germany isn't going to use threats of military intervention to stop Italy from turning migrant ships around and towing them back to where they came from if Italy ever decided to do that.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 3:44 pm to Tiger Prawn
Agree. The reaction from Germany would be political, not military.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 4:06 pm to teke184
quote:
As far as who the targets of German Nationalism will be, I'm thinking the main ones will be the politicians though Muslims may end up being the ones who get it at the street level
They are going to forcibly remove the Muslims and Africans. It would already be happening if not for the Nazi stigma.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 5:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:This has been the case since the "refugee crisis" began. It was just an excuse to pipe more people into Europe. If you remember the stories from a few years ago about all of the "do-gooders" using their yachts, etc. to rescue migrants and deliver them to Europe, the African origin was always the case.
also of note, these are primarily migrants from Africa, so it's not even the "Syrian" migrants that made all the headlines last year
Look, we like to talk about "globalists" and their evil plans and all, and it seems like InfoWars paranoia, but there really is something to the concerted effort to pipe as many members of hostile, non-assimilating cultures into Europe. You can form your own opinion as to why this is being done, but it clearly is intentional and not the result of people wanting to escape "war-torn" areas.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 7:50 pm to SlowFlowPro
Question. Italy has a large Navy and Army.
If those forces are overwhelmed is it not the legal responsibility of NATO to to intervene?
If those forces are overwhelmed is it not the legal responsibility of NATO to to intervene?
Posted on 7/18/17 at 7:55 pm to teke184
quote:Who they elected, so yeah, it's their fault.
Agreed that it isn't the fault of the German people but of their politicians.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 8:16 pm to SlowFlowPro
Italy and Greece - the two PIIGS probably least suited to absorbing a new entitlement class. I want to say, though, that there are an extremely low number of Muslims in Italy.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 8:30 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
with the Turks destabilized to the degree that Erdogan could consolidate powe
So did Erdogan succeed in purging the last of the Kemalist faction from the Army? The big protests from a few years back seemed to be sparked by Erdogan's removal of Ataturk monuments from public parks. Did that sentiment get buried in the post coup purge?
Posted on 7/18/17 at 9:35 pm to SlowFlowPro
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