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re: Is the Christian God the same God of Judaism?
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:29 am to OysterPoBoy
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:29 am to OysterPoBoy
quote:
So are the Jews going to hell?
Yes.
0
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:47 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Because God didn't transform into some new, previously non-existent being when He became man. Christ was born of the Father before all things were made and is consubstantial with Him. You have to understand that Abraham did not understand God in the same way Moses did. God was continually revealing more and more of Himself to His people (the Jews) as time went on and the centuries progressed. It wasn't until He became man that He revealed His full nature to us.
This supports my point. The question was about today’s Jews.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:52 am to MemphisGuy
quote:
If they don't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior they are.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:55 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Yes but they thought he was a fraud. In their minds and hearts, they thought they were doing the right thing.
If some guy came to your neighborhood and started telling people he was the messiah, you’d likely call the authorities too.
But what if you had tradition passed down for centuries that should have told you to expect the guy coming to your neighborhood.
And even further, if you studied it properly, you would have known the EXACT day, time and place he’d arrive.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:55 am to Filtiger
quote:The name "Trinity" to describe the doctrine of the triunity of God is man's word (the word is not found in the Bible), but the doctrine the word describes certainly is in the Bible and it describes the one essence of God in three persons.
Exactly. The trinity is mans teachings.
Mt. 3:16 Jesus was just baptized, the holy spirit descended in the form of a dove & then a voice in heaven said this is my Son, the beloved, whom I approved. They are separate.
In Matthew 3:16, you do, indeed, see the different persons of the Trinity in action. They are not separate gods, but separates persons of the Godhead, which is the singular God.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:57 am to sugar71
quote:It's likely that Muhammad had heard of Christianity and some of its teachings, but he didn't understand exactly what Christianity taught and mischaracterizes it horribly in the Qur'an.
Mary & her son are honored in the Koran & Muslims like Christians expect Jesus' to return( Not Muhammad).
It's all nonsense , but Islam actually believes in/ honors the Christian Jesus.
At the end of the day, he taught that Jesus was a prophet, but not God in the flesh.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 10:25 am to KiwiHead
quote:I think you've got it turned around. The Christian teaching is that God is one in nature but three in persons. Christians see a triune God that is one in essence in three persons.
I think you are mixing words here a little Foo.... as are many others. It is the same God overall, the Jews and Muslims disagree with the Christians as to God's nature. Christians see a triune God who is one entity....God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is One God with three different natures.
quote:Amen. Exactly.
As Christians we are taught and believe that salvation is possible right now because of the sacrifice of the Son on the Cross and his resurrection on the third day.
quote:Again I'll say that the Christian teaching is that God is three in persons and one in essence or nature. It's a mystery in the sense that there is no analogy to the Trinity in our human experience, which is why attempts to describe the Trinity with eggs, water, or other things wind up in heresy.
The Jews look at this and essentially say Christians are mistaken and that you cannot have a God with three distinct persons or natures and if there are three distinct natures, it's not one God, but three. That's where the Christian mysticism comes into play and the Christians call it the mystery of faith.
quote:The reason why I'm standing firm on the Jews and Muslims worshipping a different god than the Biblical God is precisely because God revealed Himself plainly through Jesus Christ. It's one thing to not be clear in your understanding of the three persons, but it's another thing entirely to reject that the Spirit is God and the Son is God.
The Jews and the Muslims say that God is God. You cannot "split" him up yet have him be the same singular entity/being as you started with. The Christians respond that all three natures have been present from the start...you just were not paying attention. Which is why making God flesh in the person of Jesus was necessary to demonstrate his love and his understanding of man, his greatest creation. If you accept Jesus, you are accepting God and as such you accept the inevitability of salvation and eternal life after death.....the Jews say you are going to have to wait until the Final Day. Christians say you don't have to, you accept Jesus as the Son of God as God in and of himself you are saved.
Muslims sort of hybrid this approach because they do have a path to immediate paradise.....Jews do not....when you are dead , you are dead....for a long long time.
Since God is three in persons and one in essence, then to deny that is to reject the revelation of God about Himself in order to worship an idol of man's own making. The Muslims and the Jews both worship idols because they do not worship the God who has revealed Himself. It's also why in a previous post I mentioned Deists, who create their own idol in believing in a god that is not who has revealed Himself through the Bible and especially through the incarnation of Jesus Christ.
To not believe in the trinue God as revealed in the Scriptures is to break the 1st commandment (creating an idol), the 2nd commandment (not worshipping God as He has commanded), and the 3rd commandment (rejecting the Word of God and the attributes and works contained in who He is). The Jews reject Jesus as God, as do the Muslims. Since Jesus is God, rejecting Jesus as God is to reject who God really is.
This post was edited on 11/24/23 at 10:33 am
Posted on 11/24/23 at 10:31 am to HubbaBubba
quote:Yes, really.quote:Are they, though? Really?quote:
So are the Jews going to hell? We know the Muslims are.
If they don't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior they are.
Jesus said that He is the way, the truth, and the life, and the only way to the Father. He was talking about entrance into the kingdom of Heaven.
Salvation is exclusive, and that's a message that Jesus was teaching primarily to the Jews during His time on earth. While many Jews trusted in Jesus' teaching as the God-man messiah, most didn't, and were condemned. That is true today, as well, which is why before His ascension into glory, Jesus told His disciples to go throughout the world and make disciples of the nations, because salvation exists only through trusting in the gospel message of Jesus' work on the cross.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 10:41 am to 4cubbies
quote:Yeshua bar Yusef clearly thought so.
Is the Christian God the same God of Judaism?
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:03 am to FooManChoo
From a Jewish perspective if there are three persons, there are three deities so you are not practicing monotheism but polytheism. If God has a son who is equal then you are saying there is God, then there is Jesus .....a hybrid , if you will, all God, all man. Then there is the Holy Spirit which is God and Jesus and from the Baltimore Catechism is the result of God and Jesus' love.
Jews see that as too much. I have a rabbi friend that sees it as way too contorted. God should be a simple proposition and we Christians complicate God with all the triune stuff. There is only God and God alone, a single entity. To them if you say Jesus is God, you inject a new deity into the mix.
Christianity, however offers salvation and forgiveness and the promise of everlasting life.....so eternity. It offers "tangible" rewards.
Jews see that as too much. I have a rabbi friend that sees it as way too contorted. God should be a simple proposition and we Christians complicate God with all the triune stuff. There is only God and God alone, a single entity. To them if you say Jesus is God, you inject a new deity into the mix.
Christianity, however offers salvation and forgiveness and the promise of everlasting life.....so eternity. It offers "tangible" rewards.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:21 am to KiwiHead
quote:I'm quite aware of the Jews' unwillingness to accept the teachings of God about Himself through the Scriptures. It's the same problem a lot of Gentiles have who reject the Trinity, like Unitarians and Oneness Pentecostals.
From a Jewish perspective if there are three persons, there are three deities so you are not practicing monotheism but polytheism. If God has a son who is equal then you are saying there is God, then there is Jesus .....a hybrid , if you will, all God, all man. Then there is the Holy Spirit which is God and Jesus and from the Baltimore Catechism is the result of God and Jesus' love.
Jews see that as too much. I have a rabbi friend that sees it as way too contorted. God should be a simple proposition and we Christians complicate God with all the triune stuff. There is only God and God alone, a single entity. To them if you say Jesus is God, you inject a new deity into the mix.
Christianity, however offers salvation and forgiveness and the promise of everlasting life.....so eternity. It offers "tangible" rewards
My point is that Jews today reject who God has revealed Himself to be, and therefore they believe in a different god than exists.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:21 am to Bamadog75
quote:
No the fake Jews of today are not God's chosen people they are what Jesus said they are the SOS Revelations 3-9.
Overall, I agree, the fake Jews in Israel now are just Israelites, and are not the Hebrews we read about in the Bible.
On this particular point, I disagree. The synagogue of Satan, I believe, are the Jews in the first century that rejected the Messiah and persecuted those who believed. Hence they weren’t real Jews, but of the sos.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:27 am to Filtiger
Uhhhh, nope...."Let us make....in our image..."
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:30 am to 4cubbies
So totally inconsistent with Scripture...when did Jesus ever initiate contact with Jewish and Roman leadership...not ONCE
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:30 am to 4cubbies
Islam, Christian’s, Jews all follow the God of Abraham (Yahweh)
They differ on who the Savior/prophet is or will be.
Islam follows Muhammad as the prophet of God. His teachings are way more Old Testament
Jews follow the Old Testament and don’t recognize Jesus as Savior.
Christian’s follow the New Testament and Jesus as the Savior and Son of God. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity. Father was the creator of the universe itself, The Son was the Savior I.e Gods spirit who came to earth as a mortal man and died for our sins. Holy Spirit is Gods presence and spirit in the universe and ourselves.
They differ on who the Savior/prophet is or will be.
Islam follows Muhammad as the prophet of God. His teachings are way more Old Testament
Jews follow the Old Testament and don’t recognize Jesus as Savior.
Christian’s follow the New Testament and Jesus as the Savior and Son of God. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity. Father was the creator of the universe itself, The Son was the Savior I.e Gods spirit who came to earth as a mortal man and died for our sins. Holy Spirit is Gods presence and spirit in the universe and ourselves.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:35 am to deltaland
quote:Moslems don't recognize Israel, Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah, Protestants don't recognize the authority of the Pope, and Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.
Jews follow the Old Testament and don’t recognize Jesus as Savior.
This post was edited on 11/24/23 at 11:40 am
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:35 am to KiwiHead
Jesus said, in the Garden of Gethsemane, that to 'Know God is eternal life'
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:36 am to 4cubbies
what about Gabriel?
Jews- He is in the Hebrew Bible, explained to Daniel about his visions, he is considered the guardian angel of Israel
Muslims- He is an arch angel, who spoke with Muhammed, and authored part of the Quran
Christians- Catholics, Greek Orthodox, and Lutherans list him as a Saint. In the bible he is written about in the book of Luke. Latter Days Saints believe he was Noah as a human, but became Gabriel in the afterlife.
Da Vinci's Annunciation
Jews- He is in the Hebrew Bible, explained to Daniel about his visions, he is considered the guardian angel of Israel
Muslims- He is an arch angel, who spoke with Muhammed, and authored part of the Quran
Christians- Catholics, Greek Orthodox, and Lutherans list him as a Saint. In the bible he is written about in the book of Luke. Latter Days Saints believe he was Noah as a human, but became Gabriel in the afterlife.
Da Vinci's Annunciation
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:37 am to deltaland
John addresses in John, Chapter 1.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:38 am to ELVIS U
quote:
I don't understand why we all fight over religion when we all worship the same big guy.
It’s mostly Islam that causes fights. Jews and Christians get along fine.
Islam is not the Word of God. I’m sorry, but if we are to believe that God is just then His Word wouldn’t order people to murder other non believers. That’s not Just. Beating into submission does not create believers or true faith. Just because someone follows the rituals and prayers doesn’t mean they have faith. And God knows what’s in your heart you aren’t gonna fool him. So in that sense, Islamic teachings make no sense.
The way to lead non believers to God is through their heart, to reach out and teach/show them. It happens through love, not violence.
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