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Posted on 11/25/23 at 11:08 pm to lake chuck fan
quote:
In the Temple was the Holiest of Holies where God's presence dwelled in the Ark of the Covenant,
In the alleged time of Jesus, the ark of the covenant was no longer in the temple. Theories include the Babylonians capturing it, or the Jews hiding it and losing track of it while trying to escape before the siege of the city.
Ever wonder why GOD had to have a little box to live in? He hated the idea of living in a stone sculpture or wooden or brazen bull or golden figurine - that was for the other gods of Canaan and the Philistines and others. For a god that is supposed to have created the universe and existed as an invisible spirit that has a presence everywhere in the universe simultaneously, why would he need a little box in a temple in Jerusalem?
quote:
In order for fallen man to be in direct commune with God, a perfect sacrifice has to be offered.
Ever thought, “why is that?” Why couldn’t God snap his fingers or twitch his nose and make everything good? Why did he have to have his son killed, to solve a problem he created?
quote:
When Jesus died on the cross, the veil was ripped. There no longer is anything between man's access to God.
It sure is convenient that the temple was destroyed in 70CE, hence the day of atonement ritual which atoned for a years’ worth of sin could no longer be practiced. Sure would be nice to have an excuse to not need the temple anymore, since the “perfect sacrifice” took place which negated the need for the Yom Kippur sacrifice of the two unblemished goats. Interestingly, most of the New Testament literature dates to after 70CE, with the exception of about 7 epistles of Paul and maybe the Apocalypse of John.
quote:
Jews don't accept Jesus as divine.
Modern Jews descended from the practices of Herod’s temple, no, I agree with you. However, Jews like the Essenes who rejected the second temple as corrupt, were waiting for the anointed king of the Jews to return to restore the temple and its practices to the ways of the first temple from before the Babylonian exile. Jesus threatened to tear down the temple and rebuild it. Christians descended from the Jews who practiced first temple polytheism of Solomon in secret, and their theology was enshrined in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It really is fascinating- you should check them out. It’s not too often on here anyone is talking about the first temple practices of the veil, holy of holies, and the ark.
Posted on 11/26/23 at 7:27 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
I don't agree with the Trinitarian formula.
Why would you or anyone? 3 distinct persons one in essence… Pretty dumb. It was thought up to try to reconcile the three Christian deities with the Old Testament of there being only one god that exists. It is trying to pound a square peg through a round hole.
The Trinity is one view on the subject - made up hundreds of years after Jesus - that beat out the other views in the 400s CE. The other views became “heresies”. The reason so many views existed is because those explanations are non biblical. The reference to that father, son, and spirit being the three who testify in John 5:7 in the KJV is a forgery. Other Bible verses saying to baptize in the name of the father, son, and spirit are also forgeries - the original was to baptize in the name of Jesus (only).
There are also many, many other gods in the Bible that other people ignore when claiming only one god exists. Why would Yahweh make so many commands to not worship other gods nor to serve them? There is no god beside Yahweh. Get it? It means literally there is no god on the side of Yahweh - no equal. It doesn’t mean those gods didn’t exist. What happened to David when he went fight for the Philistines? The Bible says he was forced to worship and serve the Philistine gods. Just read Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Psalm 82, and Psalm 89 for some good examples of many gods that the Bible authors believed to exist. There are hundreds more examples.
quote:
Just as I am a father to my son, a son to my mom, and a brother to my brother, yet I am one person.
Modalism. One of those heresies I mentioned.
ETA: as one poster put it, it doesn’t make sense for God and Jesus to be talking to each other, Jesus praying to God, Jesus calling out to god “why have you forsaken me?!” To me that goes for Trinitarianism as well, if Jesus and God are literally one (in essence). It is a fact that the OT and NT writers considered Theos and Kyrios as separate.
quote:
Jesus said it himself, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father.
I’ve got to figure that line is an analogy. In John 1:18 it says no one has ever seen “God” (Theos). Plenty of times people have seen “the LORD” in the OT. Moses and Abraham saw him “face to face”. The NT authors called god the father (god most high, El Elyon) “God” or literally “Theos”. They called Jesus “LORD” or literally “Kyrios”. In the NT Kyrios is always son of Theos, just as in Deuteronomy 32:8-9 as the exact same Greek words are used in the Septuagint. You will not find once in your Bible Jesus being son of the LORD. Rather, Jesus IS LORD, son of God.
To be clear, the NT authors did believe Jesus to have come from heaven and he was fully divine. They just didn’t call Jesus “God”. That word “God” they reserved for the father. Jesus they called “Lord”. Throughout the NT the authors refer to Jesus as an (or the) great archangel - they believed he was the archon, the ruler, the archangel of Israel. If you’re interested in what the first temple and Enochian Jews believed about Yahweh and their worldview in general, a great book on the subject is “The Great Angel” by Margaret Barker.
This post was edited on 11/26/23 at 8:06 am
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