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re: In case you missed it (like I did), archaeologists discovered ancient city of Sodom
Posted on 9/8/23 at 8:22 pm to Enadious
Posted on 9/8/23 at 8:22 pm to Enadious
This is high level deflection. The OP is about the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is not about the correct translation Jesus / Jacob. Stop derailing the thread.
0
Posted on 9/8/23 at 8:38 pm to lsufanva
quote:
If the Bible is a historical account told in a personal point of view, couldn't both happen? The history and geography arent necessarily as mythical as the magic.
Even Dr. Bergsma stated he believed it was a meteor, which is what [one day] secular scientists will push "a meteor destroyed two of the most prominent cities of their time, it wasn't God".
But Dr. Bergsma also stated was 'The providence is in the timing'.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 9:16 pm to Zarkinletch416
quote:
I just want the skeptics to acknowledge: 1) There exists 'A' Supreme God, 2) a God of Mercy and Compassion, 3) A God who deserves our Adoration and Praise. 4) But a God who can get angry on occassion when you break his laws, 5) the biblical description of the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah is real, and there is archeological evidence to prove it happened, and 6
You want the skeptics to "acknowledge" your list of things that you believe?
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:51 pm to Corso
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:05 pm to DreauxB2015
quote:
Why did GOD stop ? Seems he stepped away from the game and the let the evil fricks take over .
Stop? God didn't stop. People stopped listening.
Did you not see the fly land on Killary during the debates leading up the 2016 election?
Have you not heard of the miracles of the Eucharist?
There have been tons of miracles. Preserved saints.
Sister Dulce? (I have personal experience with Sister Dulce.
And me thinks that Biden, the idiot in Pennsylvania, Feinstein and Turtle losing all losing the ability to speak a coherent sentence are not by chance.
And the burning man flood when they were performing their ritual.
Near death experiences are all over youtube.
God didn't send us to earth to live in total bliss. This is our test. I hope we all will pass that test. We are NOT in heaven and this is not meant to be heaven.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:08 pm to Shamoan
quote:
Interesting things to consider.
I heard David Pawson (Biblical scholar) in one of his vids on Unlocking The Bible series say that Jericho is the oldest documented city.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:12 pm to omegaman66
quote:
And me thinks that Biden, the idiot in Pennsylvania, Feinstein and Turtle losing all losing the ability to speak a coherent sentence are not by chance.
And I thought they were just old. Still odd that they all made it into their late 70s/80s unsmitten.
This post was edited on 9/8/23 at 11:20 pm
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:12 pm to Shamoan
It was more a settlement than a city, as it was only about 100 acres worth of land. Hardly the sort of city described in the Torah.
That being said, I've never understood why everyone freaks out whenever we find evidence that people and places in X religious text actually existed. These books are rooted in real people, places and events, it stands to reason we're going to find evidence of many of them. The easiest way to make sure your religious revival falls flat is to completely make up everything in the story. And this isnt isolated to religious texts. Remember when everyone was shocked when we discovered Troy actually existed, and that the Trojan War probably happened in some capacity?
The issue for the religious is that EVERYTHING in these stories must be true or the whole thing is called into question. Sodom existing (if it did) says nothing about the truth of the claims in the Torah/Bible. The fact that we know beyond any reasonable doubt certain things ARENT accurate, such as the Exodus account, is however a huge problem for people who believe in those texts.
That being said, I've never understood why everyone freaks out whenever we find evidence that people and places in X religious text actually existed. These books are rooted in real people, places and events, it stands to reason we're going to find evidence of many of them. The easiest way to make sure your religious revival falls flat is to completely make up everything in the story. And this isnt isolated to religious texts. Remember when everyone was shocked when we discovered Troy actually existed, and that the Trojan War probably happened in some capacity?
The issue for the religious is that EVERYTHING in these stories must be true or the whole thing is called into question. Sodom existing (if it did) says nothing about the truth of the claims in the Torah/Bible. The fact that we know beyond any reasonable doubt certain things ARENT accurate, such as the Exodus account, is however a huge problem for people who believe in those texts.
This post was edited on 9/8/23 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:15 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
It was more a settlement than a city, as it was only about 100 acres worth of land. Hardly the sort of city described in the Torah.
I have to go with your opinion on this Biblical matter, you certainly nailed the Covid-19 scamdemic.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:35 pm to BayouBlitz
If the God of everything can SPEAK an entire universe into existence, things like the burning bush and parting a sea are simple. The supernatural seem a stumbling block to nonbelievers while they look past the near impossibility of the greatness of God. Your quarrel is with Genesis 1:1. If you’ve accepted the possibility of 1:1, everything else is possible.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:46 pm to Shamoan
quote:
If the God of everything can SPEAK an entire universe into existence, things like the burning bush and parting a sea are simple. The supernatural seem a stumbling block to nonbelievers while they look past the near impossibility of the greatness of God. Your quarrel is with Genesis 1:1. If you’ve accepted the possibility of 1:1, everything else is possible.
We exist in an undefinable reality, we intuitively know by our God given senses there is something much greater than mortal man but man’s pride and arrogance seem to override the obvious evidence of a Creator.
Some will perceive the majesty and undeniable existence of a greater authority and some will vehemently deny the Truth.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:58 pm to Proximo
quote:
Finding historical artifacts or locations does nothing to prove the religious concepts that have been taught through the years
However it does lend credence to the idea that the Bible is an accurate account.
But.. If the Bible is true, then nothing will ever be found to completely prove it. Faith is essential.
This post was edited on 9/9/23 at 12:16 am
Posted on 9/9/23 at 3:42 am to Shamoan
People thought Homer was writing fiction. Turns out the Trojan War was real.
Archaeology has been pretty much piss-ant orthodoxy... Took a rebel to bother to spend money and discover Troy himself, when everyone said it was a Fable.
Archaeology has been pretty much piss-ant orthodoxy... Took a rebel to bother to spend money and discover Troy himself, when everyone said it was a Fable.
Posted on 9/9/23 at 5:48 am to Sput
He’s still in his cage on lsu campus squarely in the heart of Sodom, just about an hour’s drive west of Gonorrah on interstate 10.
This is so Facebook like when someone “discovers” a restaurant that everyone already knew existed.
Maybe a millennial will rename it to something ridiculous as proof of his quality 21st century education…
This is so Facebook like when someone “discovers” a restaurant that everyone already knew existed.
Maybe a millennial will rename it to something ridiculous as proof of his quality 21st century education…
Posted on 9/9/23 at 5:49 am to RCDfan1950
quote:
Yep. And the thought that we may be next in line is sobering.
If those cities were indeed destroyed by a meteor it doesn’t mean god sent it as punishment for being bad. A more likely explanation is that the people who wrote Genesis force fit past events into their narrative.
Was Maui destroyed by fire because its people were bad?
Posted on 9/9/23 at 6:37 am to omegaman66
quote:
This is our test. I hope we all will pass that test.
Absolutely. There is no salvation without the Cross. On the destruction of Sodom, I've often reflected on poor Lot's plight. He lost everything, including his wife. So traumatic was the experience he descended to the bottle.
The lesson I learn from that? Heed the signs of the times, strengthen my resolve to follow the teachings of God as spoken by His Son Jesus. Including forgiving my enemies and serve the poor.
....and say often Jesus I Trust In You.
This post was edited on 9/9/23 at 6:39 am
Posted on 9/9/23 at 8:03 am to Zarkinletch416
quote:
God of Abraham
God Most High (El Elyon).
quote:
God whom Abraham negotiated (Genesis 18:23-33) with God for Lot's neck, his wife's neck, and daughters, and as many as he could save.
In that story it is the LORD God (Yahweh). There were many stories written by manner authors with different theology. They tried to conflate all the gods into a single god.
See Exodus 6:3
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty (El Shaddai), but by my name the LORD (Yahweh) I did not make myself known to them.
quote:
Lot only succeeded in saving himself, and his two daughters, but couldn't even convince his two son-in-laws to leave.
If you’ll re-read the story, Lot had just offered up his two daughters to be gang-raped by a mob. The sons-in-laws were probably turned off by such evil and made their best decision at the time to disassociate themselves from the crazed Lot.
quote:
We Christians get taunted and prodded for believing in what they call 'Biblical Mythology'. I'll tell you upfront, I believe the events described in the Bible are real, and this discovery of Sodom only proves the authenticity of Sacred Scripture.
What you believe is ridiculous and is worthy of ridicule. And if archaeologists find Sodom, and confirm it was destroyed by fire or lava, it still won’t be evidence of divine intervention.
quote:
Based on that revelation the skeptics can then choose to believe or not.
You don’t understand skeptics then. Only religious nuts can choose to believe fantasy despite the overwhelming abundance of evidence to the contrary. Skeptics believe based on evidence. Show a skeptic real evidence, and he will acknowledge the reality without the need to choose to believe it.
Posted on 9/9/23 at 9:35 am to Shamoan
The new Sodom city is Washington, D.C.which became current Sodom in the 1960's with the beginning of
government assassinations of threatening citizens/President and "The Great Society" which has now progressed into the current blaspheme of God's Creation of man and women.
Can't get any worse than right NOW!
government assassinations of threatening citizens/President and "The Great Society" which has now progressed into the current blaspheme of God's Creation of man and women.
Can't get any worse than right NOW!
Posted on 9/9/23 at 3:34 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
What you believe is ridiculous and is worthy of ridicule. And if archaeologists find Sodom, and confirm it was destroyed by fire or lava, it still won’t be evidence of divine intervention.
Blah Blah Blah! Attempting to muddy the waters with senseless arguments,eh?
If archaeologists find Sodom (which their evidence shows they have) and collect evidence that it was destroyed by fire or lava (which their evidence shows was destroyed by a fire from the sky - not by lava) then it only confirms the account given in Genesis 18.
Me thinks you're attempt to separate this archeological find from the biblical account recorded in Genesis 18. You know muddy the waters with all kinds of tricks with names.
In the future, before you launch into a full volley of every sort of name for God please actually read the account of the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah in the Bible. The Archeologist (and Author) is also a Biblical Scholar. I'll let him filter through the names and make the connection between Biblical Account (Genesis 18) and his findings on the ground. I'll pass on your attempt to dazzle TD readers with your tongue twisting quasi-expertise at God naming. Fair enough?
Good evening heathen. Nice try.
This post was edited on 9/9/23 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 9/9/23 at 9:11 pm to Zarkinletch416
So you acknowledge the righteous Lot offered his two daughters to a crowd to be gang raped?
ETA:
Let me help you out from Genesis 19:
Lot lied to the mob - his daughters had known men (their husbands, Lot’s sons-in-law). Lot offered them up to the mob to be raped.
Do you understand now why the sons-in-law no longer trusted Lot? What I don’t understand is why the daughters didn’t leave Lot with their husbands, after all, wives were literally property of their husbands.
ETA:
Let me help you out from Genesis 19:
quote:
4But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. 5And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” 6Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, 7and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. 8Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.”
Lot lied to the mob - his daughters had known men (their husbands, Lot’s sons-in-law). Lot offered them up to the mob to be raped.
Do you understand now why the sons-in-law no longer trusted Lot? What I don’t understand is why the daughters didn’t leave Lot with their husbands, after all, wives were literally property of their husbands.
This post was edited on 9/10/23 at 7:17 am
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