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re: I am not going to "wear" that stat about black men going to jail more
Posted on 8/25/14 at 11:47 am to FT
Posted on 8/25/14 at 11:47 am to FT
There's also the non-crack disparity-- i.e. usage rates for weed being similar across racial lines, but there being a massive, massive difference in arrest rates and the rate of actual conviction and sentencing as a result of said arrests.
1
Posted on 8/25/14 at 11:48 am to socraticsilence
quote:
but there being a massive, massive difference in arrest rates and the rate of actual conviction and sentencing as a result of said arrests.
i bet you that the stats mirror at least (but probably both) these stats:
1. population density
2. violent crime prevalence
if you live in an area of either, you will have more cops. this will lead to more arrests
Posted on 8/25/14 at 11:50 am to KCT
quote:
On a per capita basis, do blacks commit more crimes than non-blacks?
Substantially - however, when you null out race, and look at the other co-factors of poverty, single parent home, education, etc., race isn't a predictor for crime, particularly violent crime.
In other words, blacks from middle-class, 2-parent homes, who get high school educations are virtually indistinguishable from similar whites in the crime statistics (IIRC).
Similarly, whites from poverty-stricken, single-parent homes, without a high school education show up in similar numbers as blacks in the crime statistics.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 11:51 am to SlowFlowPro
True, I also think some of it is poverty related as well-- if you're rich or even middle class you don't smoke weed in a small apartment, car or a stoop where neighbors can complain/cops see it. Plus, if you're arrested you can afford better representation than a public defender.
Though admittedly this probably doesn't explain everything.
Though admittedly this probably doesn't explain everything.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 11:52 am to Ace Midnight
quote:quote:
Black men go to jail far more often than white men (percentage wise). Black men come from far more broken homes (percentage wise).
And poverty, of course.
Poor people commit crimes in greater proportions than middle class or wealthy people, particularly violent crimes.
And I'm not making character judgments - in the final analysis, poor people deal with more dire circumstances, are surrounded by poverty and violence, and ultimately have less to lose - not that they're "worse" people, necessarily.
However, like lots of destructive and anti-social patterns, it tends to create a self-perpetuating cycle.
Addressing poverty directly has done little, because subsidizing anything tends to generate more of it. The difficulty is addressing the root causes of poverty and violent crime - namely lack of education, lack of work ethic/motivation to work, lack of resources/role models, etc. - all of these abound in poor communities - without talking down to people or implying that poor people of color (or poor people, generally) are "inferior".
How can I help you stop doing things that are wrong or counterproductive if pointing them out is racist or prejudiced? (That's why it is tough to even get the conversation started...)
Quoting this because this is where focus needs to be, not squandered on racial issues. Fix the poverty issue (through education and positive role models) and you begin fixing the racism issue.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 11:52 am to socraticsilence
quote:
I also think some of it is poverty related as well-
absolutely
you get to poverty (in teh vast majority of cases) due to bad decision making. criminal activity falls in line with this (often is a reason for the economic issues, too, which is why it's called a cycle). the argument boils down to: why are so many black americans poor?
the obvious answer is privilege
Posted on 8/25/14 at 12:01 pm to Bard
quote:
Fix the poverty issue
Poverty does not exist in the U.S.
Inequality exists. The only solution to inequality is communism. And that means poverty for all.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 12:05 pm to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
Yes. Moreso LA than the South.
The rate of incarceration for young black men is nearly genocidal from an economic perspective. It is fulfilling the systemic cycle of cradle to prison.
louisiana has a large population of criminals. most of these guys have been thru the system multiple times but dont care and dont straighten up.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 12:21 pm to Zach
quote:Or, you know, capitalism.
The only solution to inequality is communism.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 12:27 pm to Iosh
How is capitalism a solution to equality?
Posted on 8/25/14 at 1:16 pm to Zach
quote:
Poverty does not exist in the U.S.
bullshite. It's just masked by government subsidy programs.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:05 pm to baybeefeetz
Repeat offenders aren't taken into account.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:52 pm to Ace Midnight
People can blame poverty all they want but I've lived in poor white areas most of my life and never had to worried about violent crime. Maybe some petty theft and things like that. The black neighborhoods in the SAME towns I'm referring to have shootings, robberies, rape. These towns have a population of about 12,000 people. Not some big city with "inner city poverty". The poor white neighborhoods suffer from the same poverty but have far less violent crimes.
This post was edited on 8/25/14 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 8/25/14 at 5:00 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
frick. It's clear what I am saying. There must be more to it than "we put black men in jail more often and for longer than we do other races." Is that true in my state? Is it true regardless of the race of the judge?
Yes it's a true state the census counts the people in prison too. It's on record.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 5:14 pm to baybeefeetz
Blacks commit about 7x as many murders as whites. It's not a stretch to think they commit other crimes at about the same rate. Sorry if this somehow leads to more jail time.
Also you get more jail time for your second, third and fourth offenses than you do your first.
Also you get more jail time for your second, third and fourth offenses than you do your first.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 5:18 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Poor people commit crimes in greater proportions than middle class or wealthy people, particularly violent crimes.
And poor people typically can't afford quality legal representation. So when they do face the court system, they don't have the legal defense to either negotiate lesser sentencing through a plea, or get off the hook.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 5:29 pm to JG77056
quote:
Blacks commit about 7x as many murders as whites.
Maybe black people just aren't as good as white people in cover up their crimes. Here's a tip, don't shoot and kill people in front of witnesses.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 7:41 pm to Golfer
quote:
And poor people typically can't afford quality legal representation. So when they do face the court system, they don't have the legal defense to either negotiate lesser sentencing through a plea, or get off the hook.
Quality isn't really the issue. There are plenty of very good attorneys that are public defenders, but they have enormous case loads and it's just not possible for them to give every client the same attention that a private attorney is likely able to give.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 8:21 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
it's just not possible for them to give every client the same attention that a private attorney is likely able to give.
Right....so,wealthy people hire attorneys who are better positioned to dedicate time to building a stronger defense strategy.
The quality of their representation is better.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 8:34 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Quality isn't really the issue. There are plenty of very good attorneys that are public defenders, but they have enormous case loads and it's just not possible for them to give every client the same attention that a private attorney is likely able to give.
I was referring to the quality of the defense they can offer as you noted because of their caseload.
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