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Started By
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re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted on 4/4/26 at 8:55 am to RollingwiththeTide
Posted on 4/4/26 at 8:55 am to RollingwiththeTide
quote:
Yeah it was the only part of Afghanistan worth anything and Biden and his merry band of morons pissed it away.
Sooner or later the Pakistanis will take it over.
0
Posted on 4/4/26 at 8:56 am to Jbird
quote:
One impacts the other Joey.
Biden's frickups have literally nothing to do with giving up Bagram, which is the point OP was making.
Had Biden done a good job of giving it away, would that change OP's stance?
Posted on 4/4/26 at 8:59 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
This the most ridiculous example of TDS that’s out there.
OP?
quote:
But to dismiss the whole Afghanistan debacle as a Trump failure
Only people trying to engage in whataboutism to blame Biden are creating this avenue.
Which is specifically why I pointed out your dishonesty in doing just that, and pointed out these are separate discussions.
quote:
Biden alone oversaw the withdrawal and subsequent release of Bagram. Full stop. “Oh Trump agreed to…” is irrelevant to the Biden administration.
Correct. Bringing up Biden in this thread is irrelevant. That's my point.
You're doubling down on BDS.
quote:
The bigger point though, is that arguing that this was a Trump issue is a litmus test for serious adults discussing policy vs trolls trying desperately to tie everything to “Trump bad” and is the mirror image of the “Jesus is guiding Trump” crowd on the right.
No. People are bringing up Trump with OP because OP seems to be ignorant of actual history and didn't realize giving up Bagram was 100% on Trump (and was a good policy, which I don't think anyone is criticizing other than the ignorants like OP).
Again, Biden has NOTHING to do with this discussion (which is the illogical conflation I think OP believes occurred)
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Irrelevant. We can speculate. Trump knew the players though, and had the intel. The conditional nature of the agreement, and the Taliban's subsequent breech of it, leaves one to suspect Trump already had that marked on his scorecard. With those things in mind, he says he'd not have given Bagram up. Simple as that. I suspect money would have changed hands, perhaps in a lease arrangement. But that's a guess.
How do you think we could have kept Bagram without doing this?
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:05 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Irrelevant
Considering the whole point of withdrawal was our failure in Afghanistan, it is the most relevant question possible for the scenario
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:07 am to RollingwiththeTide
that airbase had better runways than some international airports.
huge mistake losing bagram.
huge mistake losing bagram.
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:08 am to SlowFlowPro
My initial response was to Powerman…not OP. His position is this was a Trump failure which implies that somehow Biden was bound to Trumps decision months after he left office.
My position has consistently been that we should’ve kept Bagram and told the Taliban to pound sand. Even if temporarily, it would’ve given us a home base to safely evacuate whomever we wanted to and hold ground strategically in the region. Of all the powers on the map, appeasing the Taliban is not something I care about.
My position has consistently been that we should’ve kept Bagram and told the Taliban to pound sand. Even if temporarily, it would’ve given us a home base to safely evacuate whomever we wanted to and hold ground strategically in the region. Of all the powers on the map, appeasing the Taliban is not something I care about.
This post was edited on 4/4/26 at 9:11 am
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:13 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
My initial response was to Powerman…not OP.
And as pointed out, you dishonestly left this out
quote:
The execution is certainly worthy of criticism.
quote:
His position is this was a Trump failure
Cite where he claims that in this:
quote:
It's well known that Biden was executing a strategy that Trump put into place which is common precedence of how presidential transitions happen. People tend to enforce agreements made by their predecessors whether they agree with them or not. It allows us to have some continuity instead of hitting the reset button every 4 or 8 years. The execution is certainly worthy of criticism. Acting like it wasn't Trump's deal is an absurdity.
You can't.
quote:
My position has consistently been that we should’ve kept Bagram and told the Taliban to pound sand.
Then you are not implying, but fully stating, this was a failure by Trump.
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:21 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:How you or I think the deal would have been worked is completely, totally, thoroughly irrelevant. The fact Trump anticipated a deal would be available is the only relevant factor.
How do you think ...?
---
it is the most relevant question possible
This post was edited on 4/4/26 at 9:22 am
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You can't.
Can you read?
That whole paragraph is him saying this was Trumps fault.
Yet again, you persist in trying to win the argument vs giving an honest opinion of the merits of the argument.
quote:
Then you are not implying, but fully stating, this was a failure by Trump.
I disagree with this decision, yes.
See how easy it is to take a reasoned position based on personal opinions vs automatically taking the opposing position.
This post was edited on 4/4/26 at 9:25 am
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:23 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
That whole paragraph is him saying this was Trumps fault.
No it's not. He just said Biden had to follow through with Trump's deal. If you're implying the deal Trump made was a failure (which you did later), that's you saying this was Trump's fault.
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:23 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Biden's frickups have literally nothing to do with giving up Bagram, which is the point OP was making.
Why
didn't
he
renegotiate?
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:24 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
How you or I think the deal would have been worked is completely, totally, thoroughly irrelevant.
Which deal? The one you said was void? Or something else?
quote:
The fact Trump anticipated a deal would be available is the only relevant factor.
Trump made the deal. Why does he need to anticipate some other deal?
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:25 am to Jbird
quote:
Why
didn't
he
renegotiate?
What would be the threat from the US if the Taliban refused to renegotiate Trump's deal?
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:25 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
You can claim that as many times as you like. it’s simply not true. If conditions of Doha were not met, the agreement was off.
The “agreement” was a peace treaty / result of negotiations to end the war
Idk how this needs explaining, but he is 100% correct that not withdrawing would’ve meant… not withdrawing.
Are the Taliban shitheads? Yes. And once again, this is probably why so many people were critical of negotiating with the Taliban and circumventing the Afghan govetnment.
Did the Biden admin bungle withdrawal execution? Yes. That has nothing to do with following through on a complete withdrawal.
This is the most revisionist history thread I’ve ever seen here.
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:26 am to DeathByTossDive225
quote:
The “agreement” was a peace treaty / result of negotiations to end the war
Idk how this needs explaining, but he is 100% correct that not withdrawing would’ve meant… not withdrawing.
Are the Taliban shitheads? Yes. And once again, this is probably why so many people were critical of negotiating with the Taliban and circumventing the Afghan govetnment.
Did the Biden admin bungle withdrawal execution? Yes. That has nothing to do with following through on a complete withdrawal.
This is the most revisionist history thread I’ve ever seen here.
It's fricking insane.
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:27 am to RollingwiththeTide
Why do you MAGAts insist on blaming Biden for Bagram? Trump is the one of signed the surrender agreement which required withdrawal of all US troops from Afghanistan. He brought down US troop levels to below 2000. No way you’re defending the base with so few troops. There’s no deal the Taliban was willing to take to allow US to keep Bagram.
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Don't leave?
What would be the threat from the US if the Taliban refused to renegotiate Trump's deal?
Posted on 4/4/26 at 9:33 am to Jbird
quote:
Don't leave?
Continuing the Afghanistan war would be an incredible failure that nobody on either side wanted.
Only the biggest neocons wanted that.
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