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re: How do we change the culture of bad decision-making?

Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:12 pm to
Posted by skrayper
21-0 Asterisk Drive
Member since Nov 2012
34303 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:12 pm to
It's an insanely complicated problem that people LOVE to transform into a single bullet point.

You know, like "stop being lazy" or "quit blaming the rich".

I've been in both boats. I have a high value skill set but also worked for small companies that suddenly couldn't afford my salary and I was out looking for work again.

If I had lived in a higher concentration of people (NYC, DC, LA, etc) I'm sure I would have found a job in no time. Instead I had to wait a few months between jobs (namely because my layoffs occurred in October time frame, and most companies don't hire high-end skill sets until after New Years).

We live in a society that tells people to "get a job", then we treat people with low-paying jobs like dirt. Not everyone does it, of course, but I can think of MANY occasions where some rude jackass was screaming at the person running the register at McDonald's because there was a 3 minute wait on fries. That person makes $7.25 an hour, and is being told they're the most worthless scum on the planet because of the fate of the timer on the fryer.

Both sides have attributed to the problem. Welfare needs to be limited to those who truly need it and are seeking employment, just like unemployment is. People need to stop treating people working in the service industry like crap.

We love the idea of a black and white world, where every problem as an on/off switch solution. It's not that simple, and simply acknowledging that it isn't that simple is the first step in fixing the culture.

That said, take it from me - the idea of a lottery ticket fixing your income issues is massively appealing when you're staring at no headway on your finances getting caught up. Spending $5 on a lottery ticket doesn't change much if you're doing it once a month, but winning (despite the long odds) can change a lot. For some people, that's the reason.

Hell, for some people, just the HOPE that they might win can carry them through a little bit.
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
47970 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:13 pm to
Let the consequences of bad decisions form a basis for future decision making.

That' how it has worked for millenia.
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
33935 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

that tracking essentially eliminates any academic future those kids have (why tracking is so scary to many people)


This is not true. Even with tracking, you can still have basic core classes. You can go to community college (and some state colleges) with just a GED, I'm sure you would be able to go with a high school degree in a tracked program.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
154569 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:16 pm to
quote:

People need to stop treating people working in the service industry like crap.


I spent my time in these jobs working my way through youth and college. It was a great motivator to get an education and get out of there.

I guess it's perspective.

Not everyone treats service workers like crap. In fact, the vast majority of folks don't treat them in an ill manner.

If you do, just know that your food is likely to get all kinds of bad shite done to it eventually.

Trust me on this.
Posted by Tigerlaff
FIGHTING out of the Carencro Sonic
Member since Jan 2010
22081 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

i won't even call it PC culture

it's guilt culture. people just feel guilty at their success for some reason


I think a huge reason for this is that we are in the "quixotic" phase of our society. Things are now so good and easy compared with all of human history that we invent huge problems to fight so that our lives are imbued with meaning.

It just feels more enlightened and virtuous to say "single moms with drug problems are the result of a white heteronormative patriarchy" than it does to say "single moms with drug problems are the result of their own ignorance and irresponsibility." There isn't really a good narrative in the latter explanation. The first explanation has a protagonist, an antagonist, and a condition of injustice that can presumably be righted.

Think about how crazy that is... we condemn young children to poverty because we are too afraid and guilt-ridden to tell their parents harsh truths about their culture and the bad decisions that come with it. All of this at a time where material wealth and comfort is the easiest it has ever been to amass and maintain.
This post was edited on 2/13/17 at 12:34 pm
Posted by GurleyGirl
Georgia
Member since Nov 2015
14424 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

quote:How do we change the culture of bad decision-making? Stop rewarding it


Which is exactly what liberal progressives have been doing on the Democrat Plantation.....
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465748 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

Think about how crazy that is... we condemn young children to poverty because we are too afraid and guilt-ridden to tell their parents harsh truths about their culture and the bad decisions that come with it.

oh man don't get me started. one of the few areas that gets me rev'd up is school

we have engineered our societal view of schools around this forced ignorance of the real issues in order to protect the worst kids who ruin school for good kids who want to learn. everything in the educational system is geared towards "saving" the bad kids at the direct and indirect expense of the good kids. it's literal insanity

progs have done a masterful job changing language and rhetoric to make criticism almost impossible. either you're displaying your privilege in some way or you're displaying your lack of empathy and should feel guilty about both/either
Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
119758 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:43 pm to
the lop sided funding of special ed programs vs. gifted and talented programs is such a god damn sham. i'd rather have an avenue for smart kids to escape shitty class rooms and have great teachers rather than have 12 severely autistic kids learn how to count.
Posted by skrayper
21-0 Asterisk Drive
Member since Nov 2012
34303 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

I spent my time in these jobs working my way through youth and college. It was a great motivator to get an education and get out of there.

I guess it's perspective.

Not everyone treats service workers like crap. In fact, the vast majority of folks don't treat them in an ill manner.

If you do, just know that your food is likely to get all kinds of bad shite done to it eventually.

Trust me on this.


True, and trust me I've worked those types of jobs too (I was a crappy waiter, but great on drive-thru at Arby's ;p )

That said, I don't look at a person working one of these and say, "Get a real job." That doesn't inspire them. If a person knows someone working those kinds of jobs, they can ask things like, "Any plans down the road? Do you like it here? How about management?"

I've just been present for those passive-aggressive ones as well. Where a guy picking up trash is looked down upon.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465748 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:46 pm to
i'll be honest. i don't "get" the education programs for the severely disabled (mentally). is it a government babysitting program?

and full disclosure. the brother of my best friend as a child became severely mentally handicapped when we were 5 or so and i grew up with both into adulthood. i'm not some person who has never been around mentally disabled people in my life. they used to pay me to watch him on days in the summer when they had to be out.
Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
119758 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:48 pm to
pretty much. special ed teachers are generally higher paid as well.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465748 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:51 pm to
i mean they get to go there until they're 21, too

my cousin also is in a special ed program but they've worked to develop economic skills. i think he actually used a program that allowed him to get a head start on a career in welding

he's not severely disabled. likely has something on the spectrum. he's more peculiar than anything and it makes him seem like he's dumb when he's not really
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
62597 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

We should give a 49k deduction for kid one. Net zero if 2nd child. Pay 10k extra tax for 3rd kid. 25k for #4.


This is nonsense. Nobody is even talking about tax deductions. I think the tax deductions are fine as they currently are.

If someone makes a bad decision and needs help with the first child, then that is fine and I understand it. But continuing to make bad decisions should not be rewarded. There should be no further handouts for additional children. On the other end of your comment, there is no reason to be taxing people for having more kids. Just don't give them more benefits.
This post was edited on 2/13/17 at 12:52 pm
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
39867 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:54 pm to
quote:


The Ubi would get rid of welfare..SS. Medicaid.. Medicare..Food stamps.. Housing subsidies.. Single women welfare...As well as agriculture subsidies, etc


in theory sure but we all know that's not happening
Posted by tiggerthetooth
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
64032 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:57 pm to
People only see rich celebrity life thrown in their face daily and moderation is a sin in America today. It's not a shock that poor people try to live rich lives when it's so highly valued.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465748 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:59 pm to
yeah i mean we can't afford our welfare system now

imagine if we devoted ALL that money but split it up among every citizen. the welfare amount would be extremely diluted

and we still have medicare/aid to pay for

and we still couldn't afford it
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35373 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 1:02 pm to
quote:

yeah i mean we can't afford our welfare system now

imagine if we devoted ALL that money but split it up among every citizen. the welfare amount would be extremely diluted

and we still have medicare/aid to pay for

and we still couldn't afford it
If we went to a UBI system, then I would imagine the tax code would need adjusted to (deductions and exemptions).

But I'm curious how much of the cost of welfare and entitlements is a function of the complicated bureaucracy of the various departments that oversee it.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465748 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 1:08 pm to
i mean even at $10k, it's expensive

and then there are the perverse incentives. every kid you have is an extra $10k/year (if we're talking everyone like rocket said)

if we're talking just adults it becomes a lot more manageable (and a fair tradeoff for public schools). it will still be more expensive than what we're paying for welfare now by a wide margin

i could easily see this backfiring and making things even more marginalized (in our current economy)
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
41328 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 1:15 pm to
$10,000 a week to each recipient? Holy hell thats an insane amount of money!!! You do realize you are now paying them more than 99% of people make?!?!
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465748 posts
Posted on 2/13/17 at 1:15 pm to
i think he means $10k/year
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