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re: How did we wind up at *ODDS* with Iran? Scott Horton explains.
Posted on 7/5/25 at 8:40 am to SouthEasternKaiju
Posted on 7/5/25 at 8:40 am to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:
The content of the podcast is for you.
It merely confirms what I already knew.
1
Posted on 7/5/25 at 8:42 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:What is wrong with people. It's like people have forgotten 9/11 or all the other attacks that have happened and just assume Islamic terrorists would stop killing infidels if we would just leave them alone. Let's be negligent and naive and let our guard down because we're the ones who poked the poor sand jockeys in the eye and that's why they're mad at us. If Iran wans to enrich way past civilian use and they're a sponsor of terrorism, well that's not concern of ours. There's no way that could come back to hurt us
why do so many alleged “conservatives” believe that this is a problem that should rightly be solved by the United States?
quote:You want to trust someone else to fix our problem? No thanks. They've proven time and time again that they can't/won't get the job done to our satisfaction
the rest of the nations in the region — many obscenely wealthy — have plenty of motivation to align and counter Iran’s hegemonic ambitions in the region
Posted on 7/5/25 at 8:45 am to KiwiHead
quote:
Take Bin Laden, he kept saying why he was pissed off and it had nothing to do with Christianity vs Islam....or our freedoms, etc. He was mad that we had troops stationed in Saudi Arabia....their Holy Land and our continued support for Israel because of Israel's treatment of Palestinians
So now we're taking Bin Laden at his word??? WOW Regardless of that particular quote, we know everything we need to know about Islamic terrorism
quote:This is all a very liberal western political way of looking at the situation. Those people are all connected to Islamic terrorists. They cannot have a nuclear weapon. Period. Completely unacceptable. And I don't trust any other nation to solve our problem for us
On Iran, the Islamists will tell you things about Mossadegh, but the truth is they are still pissed at the Shah....Mossadegh is convenient as they had little use for him and the proto Communists in 51-53. The mullahs were pissed off at the Shah over money. In the late 50s early 60s the Shah executed a program called the White Revolution which was a major land reform initiative. The mullahs had lots of land and the Shah basically started taking it away from them, subdivision it and gave it to peasants. They were pissed off the mullahs who had a lot of local control as they had their fiefdoms. Enter Khomeini who had a personal beef with the Pahlavi family.
Khomeini hated Pahlavi so much that anyone who helped him was now his enemy. Anyone who helped him.....ever. He wanted the Shah dead, because the Shah's father killed HIS father ( allegedly). Shah was not a good guy by any stretch, threw political opponents in jail, even killed some.....and he was rapidly westernized the country without caring all that much about the consequences on the society - see White Revolution and the other side of the land reform.
Posted on 7/5/25 at 10:46 am to soonerinlOUisiana
Yeah. Which is really bad.
Posted on 7/5/25 at 11:39 am to WinnPtiger
quote:
yes you are.
this is getting so tiresome. Islam wasn’t a peaceful utopia until 1948. you people love to talk about history.
fine. let’s talk about history
No, I'm not an infidel. I'm not a Christian, I do not idol worship and their grievances against Christians do not apply to me. I have no trouble talking to Muslim people about religion. In fact, I am in agreement with them on many things - including being against idol worshiping.
And they also believe in Jesus, and that Jesus will return and destroy the anti-christ. Yet another thing I am in agreement with them on - the lie will live until the truth returns.
If anything, I would be a dhimmi. A protected non muslim.
At best, I'd have to pay their taxes and be loyal to their state. Of which is EXACTLY the same situation I'm in now as an American citizen.
At any rate, if they just hated Christians and "infidels", they would be attacking other places. They don't. For some reason, they only attack the people who keep attacking them.
Find me the religion that has been peaceful in it's history. I will likely hear from multiple Christians today on how they want to kill Muslims. I can show you Jewish people who want to enslave and kill all Christians and all Muslims. All the while, the extremists are just the bad guys for the other extremists, justifying their bad actions on the bad actions of others.
And yet despite the extremists, I will defend them all and your right to belong to them. Because I reject collectivism and refuse to judge you based on the actions of others.
This post was edited on 7/5/25 at 11:43 am
Posted on 7/5/25 at 12:00 pm to somethingdifferent
Yeah, I think you do. Because he kept saying it....repeatedly. That was why 9/11 happened. That was the reason for the embassy attacks in East Africa. He out and out said that was the reason for Khobar Towers in 1995. He wanted us out of the Arabian Peninsula.....and he did not like how Israel and by extension the West was treating the Palestinians.
In Iran, Khomeini said in the early 60's that the initiatives the Shah was implementing via the White Revolution were unacceptable whether that was essentially seeing the land from the mullahs or giving women the right to vote.....he was not for it and whether that was couched in Islam or whatever was beyond the point. He and his followers in the countryside and the underclass in the cities did not like it....particularly the Iranian clerics who had a lot of persuasion over the people.
He said as much, over and over again. He also hated the Shah personally.....he did not try to hide it. Maybe he was looking for worldwide Islamic domination, maybe not. He had a blood beef with Pahlavi and ultimately the US who unerwrote him. But what got him going was the reforms the Shah began to enact in the early 60s. Pahlavi took stuff from the mullahs, mullahs wanted him to pay, Shah would not pay up or change the policy. The clerics saw their influence threatened....they turned to Khomeini whom they knew would not enter into compromise with Pahlavi. Khomeini had said he hated the Shah and wanted him gone.
Really, though exporting Islamic Revolution was problematic as Iran was Shi'a. Most of the Muslim world was/ is Sunni.
In Iran, Khomeini said in the early 60's that the initiatives the Shah was implementing via the White Revolution were unacceptable whether that was essentially seeing the land from the mullahs or giving women the right to vote.....he was not for it and whether that was couched in Islam or whatever was beyond the point. He and his followers in the countryside and the underclass in the cities did not like it....particularly the Iranian clerics who had a lot of persuasion over the people.
He said as much, over and over again. He also hated the Shah personally.....he did not try to hide it. Maybe he was looking for worldwide Islamic domination, maybe not. He had a blood beef with Pahlavi and ultimately the US who unerwrote him. But what got him going was the reforms the Shah began to enact in the early 60s. Pahlavi took stuff from the mullahs, mullahs wanted him to pay, Shah would not pay up or change the policy. The clerics saw their influence threatened....they turned to Khomeini whom they knew would not enter into compromise with Pahlavi. Khomeini had said he hated the Shah and wanted him gone.
Really, though exporting Islamic Revolution was problematic as Iran was Shi'a. Most of the Muslim world was/ is Sunni.
Posted on 7/5/25 at 2:08 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
Indeed. Those moslems are some terrible pieces of Shiite.
This post was edited on 7/5/25 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 7/5/25 at 2:10 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
There is no war with Iran but Iran has been a enemy of the United States since the hostage crisis in the late 70s
Posted on 7/5/25 at 2:59 pm to 3down10
quote:Ah. I see where your ignorance is now. I tried to tell you this before but even some Muslims are infidels as shirk can apply to them as well. You are most certainly an infidel. Infidel status is not limited to Christians only. It is ANYONE who is guilty of shirk. Now unless you're of the khawarij theology, you are an infidel to them and they ABSOLUTELY want to kill you and everyone you love
No, I'm not an infidel. I'm not a Christian, I do not idol worship and their grievances against Christians do not apply to me
Hopefully, that cleared up your misconception. You are simping for backwards, religious fanatics who want to brutally kill you
quote:You are probably talking to the "peaceful" or "moderate" Muslims who jihadists see as the enemy of Allah. Those of the Mu'tazalite theology
I have no trouble talking to Muslim people about religion
quote:You might be surprised to learn that the jihadists often don't recognize such people nor the Muslims who protect them
If anything, I would be a dhimmi. A protected non muslim
quote:THEY ARE
At any rate, if they just hated Christians and "infidels", they would be attacking other places
quote:You are factually incorrect
They don't.
quote:Factually false and you seem to know just enough about Islam to be dangerous
For some reason, they only attack the people who keep attacking them
Posted on 7/5/25 at 3:01 pm to KiwiHead
quote:None of what you said has anything to do with the fact of Islamic terrorism and that they cannot be allowed to have a nuclear weapon.
KiwiHead
Moreover, everything you said has nothing to do with the fact that Muslims have hated infidels LONG BEFORE any of the events you mentioned
Posted on 7/5/25 at 3:30 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
It's like people have forgotten 9/11 or all the other attacks that have happened and just assume Islamic terrorists would stop killing infidels if we would just leave them alone.
Forgotten?
The problem is too many people have failed to learn the real lesson of 911.
And that lesson is that perpetual meddling with the pit vipers in the Middle East leads to….perpetual meddling with the pit vipers in the Middle East.
What Was In The Redacted 28 Pages?
Prince Bandar
Bandar is the highest Saudi government official mentioned in the 28 Pages document. While at the time of the 9/11 attacks he was the Saudi Ambassador to the United States, his position in the Saudi Royal Family is much higher.
Bandar bin Sultan first came to public attention in Craig Unger's seminal work LINK ] House of Bush, House of Saud. Bandar was so close with the Bush family, that Barbara Bush dubbed him "Bandar Bush."
Unlike ambassadorships appointed in the US – which are strictly political or token gestures – Bandar’s background is much more complex and strategic.
Within the Saudi Royal Family, which is also the Saudi Government, there exists a family faction that is more powerful then the larger family. This group is called the Sudari Seven, which is made up of seven full brothers fathered by the Saudi Kingdom’s founding monarch and his favorite wife Hussa. The Sudari Seven are the full brothers who, along with their sons and grandsons, control the key posts in the Saudi Government, including the throne. Prince Sultan is one of the Sudari Seven and he is also the father of Prince Bandar.
Sultan was head of the Ministry of Defense and Aviation and later became Crown Prince – second to the throne – in 2005. Some of the Saudi nationals mentioned in the 28 Pages appear to be receiving funding directly through the Ministry of Defense or through its front companies.
Father and son (Sultan and Bandar) both held key positions in the Saudi Government at the same time and received promotions at the same time. It is valid to ask if Sultan knew what Bandar was doing and if Bandar knew what Sultan was doing. Since they are father and son, one would assume they likely knew. On the other hand, as they held different government positions with specific channels of intelligence flow, their mutual knowledge about these key events remains unclear.
From 1983 – 2005, Bandar served as the Saudi Ambassador to the United States. In this position, he reported directly to the King. In 2005, he was promoted to head of GID (Saudi Intelligence, like the CIA). This is the same year that his father, Prince Sultan, becomes Crown Prince.
The 28 Pages strongly implicate Bandar and his wife (his half cousin) in funding Saudi nationals who provided support for the 9/11 hijackers. While the 28 page document does not implicate Bandar in any direct contact or support for the hijackers themselves, it does show that without Bandar’s assistance to certain other Saudi nationals, the hijackers could not have completed their mission.
Bandar was also the person who organized the now infamous departure of all Saudi nationals in the US within days of 9/11, including members of the bin Laden family….
Posted on 7/5/25 at 3:39 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Ah. I see where your ignorance is now. I tried to tell you this before but even some Muslims are infidels as shirk can apply to them as well. You are most certainly an infidel. Infidel status is not limited to Christians only. It is ANYONE who is guilty of shirk. Now unless you're of the khawarij theology, you are an infidel to them and they ABSOLUTELY want to kill you and everyone you love
Hopefully, that cleared up your misconception. You are simping for backwards, religious fanatics who want to brutally kill you
This is just collectivism at work. You take the entire group and you focus on a few and then pretend that is the entire group. At the same time, you'll completely ignore the religious extremists in your own religion who are just as bad if not worse.
It's just a manipulation. It would be like me pretending the worst Christians possible I could find are what all Christians are like. That's ridiculous obviously and would just be collectivism at work. By the actual teachings of Christians, Judaism and Islam, I wouldn't fear living in their societies.
If I could stop people who did evil things in the name of God I would, but I can't. I can however judge people based on their own individual characteristics(not to be confused with passing judgment).
quote:
You are probably talking to the "peaceful" or "moderate" Muslims who jihadists see as the enemy of Allah. Those of the Mu'tazalite theology
No, but are you suggesting they don't count? I should blow up entire countries with them and their families because you claim some of them want to kill me?
Is they hypocrisy not apparent?
quote:
You might be surprised to learn that the jihadists often don't recognize such people nor the Muslims who protect them
Sounds exactly like criminals don't follow the law. Which is why we have a God given right to self defense. But name the last time Iran attacked the US on anything other than foreign soil, and even without that limitation you'll struggle to name more than a few.
quote:
THEY ARE
They aren't even attacking us here.
quote:
Factually false and you seem to know just enough about Islam to be dangerous
You're upset over the notion that they just want to attack us and kill us.
Imagine how you would feel if they came over here and overthrew our democracy and installed a brutal dictator that ruled over us for decades.
Then they turned around and gave Mexico a bunch of arms, Mexico declares war on us that lasts for 8 years. And during that time they supplied Mexico with a bunch of WMD to be used against us.
Then after all that, we use a false flag attack to launch wars against 6 different nations over the next 20+ years, telling anyone who doesn't do what we want in the region they will be dealt with by us - fricking up their countries even more in the process and making them even more religiously extremists(as oppression often does).
And according to you, it's all justified because of your biased picking and choosing of historical events. Most of these people got into power because we armed them in the first place.
I know they aren't perfect, nobody is. But I think it's time we remove the log from our own eyes first.
Posted on 7/5/25 at 5:46 pm to Bunk Moreland
How do you know it didn't need to happen you effing Dolt?
Posted on 7/5/25 at 9:59 pm to 3down10
quote:
No, I'm not an infidel. I'm not a Christian, I do not idol worship and their grievances against Christians do not apply to me.
the simple fact that you believe this says you’re out of your fricking depth
This post was edited on 7/5/25 at 10:00 pm
Posted on 7/5/25 at 10:05 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:
How did we wind up at *ODDS* with Iran?
Probably has something to do with allowing Muslim fundamentalist to depose a 2,500 year old monarchy that was favorable to the west.
Posted on 7/5/25 at 10:33 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
Well maybe of they hadden taken hostages and yell death to America 5 times a day. Its really simple they are blood enemies of our allies, Saudi Arabia and most all the Sunni Arab states and Isreal
Posted on 7/5/25 at 10:34 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:
the bombing was totally unnecessary
Pretty easy to Monday morning QB this when their nuke sites have been destroyed.
Posted on 7/5/25 at 10:36 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:
The bombing was unnecessary
That is a complete and utter lie.
Posted on 7/5/25 at 11:00 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:While this is fine and has may have some truth to it, Islamic terrorists hated you WAYYY before any "meddling" by the US and
perpetual meddling with the pit vipers in the Middle East leads to….perpetual meddling with the pit vipers in the Middle East
Iran still can't have a nuclear weapon. Use any means necessary
Posted on 7/5/25 at 11:18 pm to 3down10
quote:No it's not. It is a fact of Islam
This is just collectivism at work
quote:I did no such thing and it doesn't matter what the "moderate" and "peaceful" Muslims are doing or thinking. It is a fact that Islamic terrorists exist and they want to kill you and all your family.
You take the entire group and you focus on a few and then pretend that is the entire group
How can you be this naive and uneducated on this topic
quote:Strawman
you'll completely ignore the religious extremists in your own religion who are just as bad if not worse
quote:This has nothing to do with anything
It would be like me pretending the worst Christians possible I could find are what all Christians are like
quote:
I wouldn't fear living in their societies
Move to a terrorist controlled area of the ME and see how that goes. See how much they like your "collectivist" analysis and liberal western political view of their situation mUh iF tHeY oNlY hAd wAtEr aNd jObS
On this issue, you are WAY WAY off
quote:What in the hell does that have to do with jihadists acquiring a nuclear weapon at the hands of the Iranians?
are you suggesting they don't count?
quote:This didn't happen. I can't fathom how your brain got so warped
I should blow up entire countries with them and their families because you claim some of them want to kill me?
quote:And here it is again, just like in the other thread
But name the last time Iran attacked the US on anything other than foreign soil
"They've only attacked us one time so there's no need for me to protect my family. If we just stop poking the poor camel jockeys in the eye, they will leave us alone."
BTW, you don't think that the Iranian citizens are "innocent," do you?
quote:9/11
They aren't even attacking us here
And even if 9/11 didn't happen, anyone who has a security posture of "I know they constantly plot to kill us but, they haven't attacked us so, we're good. No need for national defense" won't last long in this world. See: Pearl Harbor, WW2 Poland, etc
quote:This has nothing to do with the historical reasons why Islamic terrorists want to kill you. Nothing
Imagine how you would feel if they came over here and overthrew our democracy and installed a brutal dictator that ruled over us for decades
quote:Laughable strawman
And according to you, it's all justified because of your biased picking and choosing of historical events
Until you get educated on Islam and history, you will continue to make these completely idiotic and naive statements.
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