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Message
re: Honestly As of Now, Which Country Has the Upper-Hand On the Tariff Situation?USA or China?
Posted on 4/14/25 at 8:33 am to tide06
Posted on 4/14/25 at 8:33 am to tide06
It’
No, he was spot on.
Are y'all under the impression still that trade is a zero sum game and there are winners and losers?
quote:
s a hard thing to acknowledge but Friedman was utterly wrong on all of his tariff arguments in the early 90s based on the 35 years of evidence we have to evaluate them
No, he was spot on.
Are y'all under the impression still that trade is a zero sum game and there are winners and losers?
1
Posted on 4/14/25 at 8:44 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
No, he was spot on.
Friedman was wrong
quote:
Are y'all under the impression still that trade is a zero sum game and there are winners and losers?
Logical fallacy. Free trade is not a zero sum game and can be mutually beneficial. Manipulated trade where one side is operating under different sets of environmental constraints, manipulating currencies, stealing intellectual property, setting up trade barriers through regulation, subsidizing industries, etc., can actually be harmful to either or both partners. Friedman's mistake was thinking that unfree trade was self-limited and the US wouldn't run permanent trade deficits. (it won't last very long). He was badly mistaken when he said that in 1980, and 45 years later we've done serious damage to our economy by trading with multiple partners on unequal and unfree terms.
This post was edited on 4/14/25 at 8:49 am
Posted on 4/14/25 at 8:47 am to wdhalgren
quote:
and can be mutually beneficial.
Businessmen arent making trades unless its beneficial, period.
Two companies doing legal business across borders isnt the governments business.
The old conservative views on trade have been replaced with Statism on this board.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 8:53 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Businessmen arent making trades unless its beneficial, period.
Two companies doing legal business across borders isnt the governments business.
Incorrect again. Businessmen can make a profit while economies suffer. If a foreign "businessman" is acting in concert with their govt, then our corresponding private industry is damaged by the outcome. That's our government's business because China's government made it our government's business. If we now depend on China to supply critical minerals, electronics, etc., we've damaged ourselves because of manipulated trade and aggressive measures to reverse that situation are warranted.
quote:
The old conservative views on trade have been replaced with Statism on this board.
You have it backwards. You're the one advocating Statism by submitting propaganda for a marxist autocracy.
This post was edited on 4/14/25 at 9:17 am
Posted on 4/14/25 at 8:54 am to KCT
I don't think this is immediately about getting the upper hand on China. I think it's about trying to equalize a grave mistake we made selling our industrial capability overseas, squandering our innovation and resource advantages and trying to regain investment into this country, its workers and resources.
Globalization makes a small number of people very rich, but it makes more impoverished and with technological changes, that problem is going to be more pronounced. Selling out our working class to an aggressive communist empire was never smart and if China obtains economic supremacy and we lose any advantage, we will wither away. We have to get some degree of equilibrium back.
Globalization makes a small number of people very rich, but it makes more impoverished and with technological changes, that problem is going to be more pronounced. Selling out our working class to an aggressive communist empire was never smart and if China obtains economic supremacy and we lose any advantage, we will wither away. We have to get some degree of equilibrium back.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 8:55 am to UptownJoeBrown
quote:
You said would they do something crazy. Running over your own people with tanks and machine gunning them down is pretty crazy.
Dude, I said that I feared the CCP would do something crazy because I do know their history. That includes knowing about Tianeman Square. You foolishly took it upon yourself to assume that I didn't know about that.
Why do you think I said I didn't trust them?
Posted on 4/14/25 at 9:07 am to Harry Boutte
I
This is total propaganda. These countries are obviously not aligned with china. China has been flooding all of east Asia with cheap goods, running companies out of business. Lol, they also know that china wants to expand and they all know that china has been aggressive in it's nature to expand. The EU is no different, they may grandstand and pretend, but none of the countries or unions mentioned will ever trust china enough to change any policies because of a tariff. The leftist world view is built on extreme ignorance. This is why the US is in the situation we are in. For you to just believe something because you saw it in the news, and come here and try to just regurgitate it as it is so obvious, just continues to prove how out of touch your world view really is....
quote:
n a significant move to counter increasing trade pressures from the United States, China, Japan, and South Korea have decided to unite against rising tariffs imposed by the US. These three major Asian economies held their first economic discussions in five years, resulting in an agreement aimed at strengthening their trade relations and enhancing cooperation on supply chains.
This is total propaganda. These countries are obviously not aligned with china. China has been flooding all of east Asia with cheap goods, running companies out of business. Lol, they also know that china wants to expand and they all know that china has been aggressive in it's nature to expand. The EU is no different, they may grandstand and pretend, but none of the countries or unions mentioned will ever trust china enough to change any policies because of a tariff. The leftist world view is built on extreme ignorance. This is why the US is in the situation we are in. For you to just believe something because you saw it in the news, and come here and try to just regurgitate it as it is so obvious, just continues to prove how out of touch your world view really is....
This post was edited on 4/14/25 at 11:52 am
Posted on 4/14/25 at 9:23 am to wdhalgren
quote:
Incorrect again. Businessmen can make a profit while economies suffer.
Whats the purpose of business?
Self interest is one cornerstone of conservative ideals.
Youre wanting a planned or extremely highly regulated economy because you believe that individual businesses exist for the greater good of society. Thats not a conservative ideal.
This post was edited on 4/14/25 at 9:24 am
Posted on 4/14/25 at 9:38 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Whats the purpose of business?
Self interest is one cornerstone of conservative ideals.
A spy selling US govt secrets to a foreign govt is a businessman acting in his own self-interest, or the interests of that foreign govt or both. Just so happens that his self interest conflicts with the self interests of our country and is thus harmful to the US. Nobody anywhere, ever, has agreed with this "ideal" of yours that self interested interactions with a foreign country that are directly harmful to the US should be freely permitted and tolerated.
quote:
Youre wanting a planned or extremely highly regulated economy because you believe that individual businesses exist for the greater good of society. Thats not a conservative ideal.
When foreign govts act in a way that is hostile to the interests and survival of the US, it's the responsibility of our government to intervene. That's not an "extremely highly regulated economy", it's self preservation and is essential to defending yourself from hostile foreign actors.
"Extremely highly regulated economy" is what China has. Their govt has long been manipulating foreign trade to their perceived advantage and to our disadvantage. Trump's actions are intended to counter their trade behavior, something that should've been done long ago by one means or another. You should be preaching to China, not the Trump administration.
This post was edited on 4/14/25 at 10:31 am
Posted on 4/14/25 at 10:14 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Two companies doing legal business across borders isnt the governments business.
When it's done in an unfair manner which has negative consequences on our nation and creates national security issues, it most certainly is the government's responsibility. All war and hostilities are perpetrated with bullets.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 10:17 am to KCT
US has the upper hand. Everyone knows it except the American media. Even China knows it.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 10:32 am to KCT
As I see it, China makes a lot of stuff for us but most of it comes down to things we could make here but for labor costs. That's just a consumer shift, if consumers want those things at a higher price (or if manufacturers move to countries with better tariff positions).
This means: the US has trade options (including onshoring), China doesn't. The US is, by far, China's number 1 export destination, making up 15% of China's exports.
Losing that big a chunk of your income practically overnight can be tough to overcome (but it's possible). The Chinese are gambling that Trump won't stick to it because we (as a country and society) have proven our politicians will capitulate to foreign whims when enough public pressure is applied.
Trump is a lame duck President. Often, such Presidents will moderate their stances in order to set up their legacy. Trump doesn't seem to give a frick about that and is charging harder than any other 2nd-term President I can remember.
This means: the US has trade options (including onshoring), China doesn't. The US is, by far, China's number 1 export destination, making up 15% of China's exports.
Losing that big a chunk of your income practically overnight can be tough to overcome (but it's possible). The Chinese are gambling that Trump won't stick to it because we (as a country and society) have proven our politicians will capitulate to foreign whims when enough public pressure is applied.
Trump is a lame duck President. Often, such Presidents will moderate their stances in order to set up their legacy. Trump doesn't seem to give a frick about that and is charging harder than any other 2nd-term President I can remember.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 10:36 am to KCT
US: A full decoupling will have to live with long and short term shortages in almost all cheaply made stuff in addition to electronics (phones, etc. - we were heading this way despite the trade war), some rare earth minerals we will need to source elsewhere. We will suffer mainly from inconvenience and possible deepening recession.
China: Economy will evaporate. They import food, energy, etc. People might start dying and or revolting against the Communist Government.
China: Economy will evaporate. They import food, energy, etc. People might start dying and or revolting against the Communist Government.
This post was edited on 4/14/25 at 10:38 am
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:22 pm to lake chuck fan
quote:
When it's done in an unfair manner
Here comes the SJWs
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:54 pm to KCT
U.S.
Without doubt.
China’s domestic consumption sucks, so their economy’s been living off of exports. With Trump’s tariffs, China’s economy is fkd. Not to mention their decreasing population and their younger generations who are just giving up and “letting things rot” (bai lan); they’re opting out of the Chinese rat race and just not participating as a life choice.
Without doubt.
China’s domestic consumption sucks, so their economy’s been living off of exports. With Trump’s tariffs, China’s economy is fkd. Not to mention their decreasing population and their younger generations who are just giving up and “letting things rot” (bai lan); they’re opting out of the Chinese rat race and just not participating as a life choice.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:56 pm to KCT
China needs to pay for releasing Covid and killing millions, including my father. F.U.C.K China!
Posted on 4/14/25 at 4:36 pm to KCT
Someone here said it.. we import cheap tat from china… they import food.. they know if they pull some bullshite we seize all of the farmland they have here
Posted on 4/14/25 at 4:43 pm to Espritdescorps
quote:
we import cheap tat from china
Unfortunately we also import things we really need from China. Nothing that we shouldn't be able to make, but we have end our dependency on China.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 4:50 pm to KCT
USA
All trump has to say, is that were not buying ANYTHING from you and tarrifs are at 400%, and you will see chinamen killing themselves as they lose everything.
they are already hurting from these tarrifs, another 200% would break them and their joke of economy.
All trump has to say, is that were not buying ANYTHING from you and tarrifs are at 400%, and you will see chinamen killing themselves as they lose everything.
they are already hurting from these tarrifs, another 200% would break them and their joke of economy.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 5:47 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
These three major Asian economies held their first economic discussions in five years
They’ll remember why they took five years, quickly.
Japan will frick over Chyna quick of Trump applies pressure.
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