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Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:38 am to Cuz413
quote:
Do you not understand that leaving a union does not equal a war?
Well maybe they shouldn’t have attacked first
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:39 am to rmnldr
quote:
When she asked him what he believed the cause of the war was, he replied that he wasn’t running for president.
Its not hard you dumb twat.
The southern states voluntarily left the union to preserve their ability to maintain and to be able to legally spread slavery to the new territories.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:41 am to rmnldr
I purposefully didn't start this thread because I knew how it would go on here.
The issue isn't whether it is 100% true or not. Its a complex issue. More than a soundbite on stage can give.
Its an issue of FRAMING and how to answer in a Presidential Primary in 2023, in New Hampshire.
"Democrats loved owning slaves and started a war to preserve that, and a Republican President freed them and preserved our Union"
Even if you don't believe that, its a fricking layup
The issue isn't whether it is 100% true or not. Its a complex issue. More than a soundbite on stage can give.
Its an issue of FRAMING and how to answer in a Presidential Primary in 2023, in New Hampshire.
"Democrats loved owning slaves and started a war to preserve that, and a Republican President freed them and preserved our Union"
Even if you don't believe that, its a fricking layup
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:41 am to Furious
quote:
There were a half a million slaves in northern states during the civil war. It was not about slavery.
In 1860, South Carolina literally wrote it down saying “this is about slavery”
And here you are in 2023 saying “nuh uh!”
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:42 am to thelawnwranglers
quote:
State rights
(to own slaves)
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:42 am to Fun Bunch
Link, snip, post the very document where Lincoln presented to Congress the justification to raise an army and go to war with the then seceded Southern States for the sole purpose to free the slaves.
I've already provided earlier several points where the hypocrisy of Lincoln over slavery in the North and other areas DURING the war.
I've already provided earlier several points where the hypocrisy of Lincoln over slavery in the North and other areas DURING the war.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:42 am to Cuz413
quote:
However, secession =/= civil war
and for the record it was not a "civil war" as the South wanted no part of controlling the North,
True and true.
What happened in 1861 was one nation divided itself into 2 nations and then proceeded to have a conventional war.
A civil war is like Lebanon or Sarajevo where neighbors fight neighbors.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:43 am to rmnldr
quote:
Slave states wanted to preserve and extend slavery and it was non-negotiable.
Honestly, I believe a more accurate way to put it would be:
Slave states wanted to preserve and extend industry (cotton), therefore, slavery (workers) was non-negotiable.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:43 am to VOR
quote:But slavery was a thing. Evil? yes. Morally reprehensible? Yes. But it was nonetheless, a component of the United States national foundation and union.
If not for slavery, there would have been no secession and war. Get serious, man.
If not for Northern attempts to sublimate Southern rights in accordance with the Constitution, there would have been no secession and war.
It is an important distinction, because there were numerous issues at hand. Southerners felt if a Constitutional guarantee could be vaporized, they could be decimated in other less certain issues like differential tariffs/taxation as well.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:45 am to rmnldr
quote:
Well maybe they shouldn’t have attacked first
This statement ^^^ is a cop out and by doing so have admitted that secession was in part for slavery and the war was not. You are trying to shift the narrative.
This post was edited on 12/28/23 at 8:48 am
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:47 am to VOR
quote:
Massachusetts was not part of the Confederacy.
So what. Northern states started the slavery ball rolling, aided in its spread across the colonies, and profited from it for many decades.
There are no clean hands.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:47 am to Cuz413
quote:
Link, snip, post the very document where Lincoln presented to Congress the justification to raise an army and go to war with the then seceded Southern States for the sole purpose to free the slaves.
What don't you understand about your version of the truth being irrelevant in this moment for Nikki
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:50 am to TrueTiger
They might also be shocked to learn that Jim Crow laws started in the North as well.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:51 am to Cuz413
quote:
This statement ^^^ is a cop out and by doing so have admitted that secession was in part for slavery and the war was not. You are trying to shift the narrative.
A cop out?
This is ridiculous.
You’re willing to agree that secession was about slavery.
But everything else wasn’t?
So without secession (which was about slavery) you don’t have a Fort Sumter attack. You get that right? You don’t have a civil war either. Therefore, slavery caused the civil war.
That’s not saying that every single man that fought in the war fought because of slavery. Just like how not every German soldier fought for the extermination of the undermensch.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:51 am to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:
The South didn’t want control of the Union.
It wasn’t s civil war.
This is the correct answer and how she should've responded to the question. But yet the victor gets to write the history rather it's factual or not.
The confederate States had the constitutional right to succeed from the Union.
Had their own government.
Had their own currency.
Had their own constitution.
Had their own military.
It wasn't a rouge army that tried to overthrow the United States government.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:52 am to Furious
quote:
There were a half a million slaves in northern states during the civil war. It was not about slavery.
AND slaves were still owned in Northern states AFTER that war!
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:53 am to coldbeerfan
quote:
This is the correct answer and how she should've responded to the question.
Even if its what you think is the correct answer, objectively, it is 100% not how she should have responded.
We are talking political realities here people
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:53 am to Cuz413
quote:
They might also be shocked to learn that Jim Crow laws started in the North as well.
See you’re taking this personally. No one is framing this as the south is evil and north is angelic and that every southerner is an evil racist and if you have any confederate heritage or have ever flown a CSA flag you deserve death.
The point of the thread is that Nikki Haley is a hypocrite and is being killed in local and national media about this.
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:53 am to rmnldr
quote:
Nikki Haley declined to say that slavery was a cause of the Civil War on Wednesday evening, placing the blame, instead, on the role of government.
Slavery was a large reason for the south leaving the union.
The war itself, however, was not fought over slavery. It was fought to retain the union. Ending slavery was not a war aim until the emancipation proclamation.
To say the north fought to end slavery is laughable considering the north continued to have slaves until the ratification of the 13th post war. In addition, the final slaves would not be freed for nearly a year post 13th ratification, as it took a while to get out WEST to the INDIAN TERRITORIES, where the last slaves were actually freed.
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