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re: For those wanting to live in a post-Christian America, how are you enjoying it
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:48 pm to Liberator
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:48 pm to Liberator
You jump into a conversation between Jimbeaux and I, hell bent on disagreeing with me, and all you've done so far is ask me questions about what I'm aruging.
Maybe next time find out the argument I'm making before attempting to disagree with it?
Maybe next time find out the argument I'm making before attempting to disagree with it?
0
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:49 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Why would that be a violation of rights in a theocratic country where the king was God, Himself? Wouldn't unbelief, and therefore, a refusal to submit yourself to Him, be a form of treason in that setup? If so, why would that be a violation of rights?
You lost me on that. I don't conflate my "rights" as set forth in the Constitution (by man) with rights set forth by some sort of supernatural entity.
Alas, the U.S. isn't a theocracy. Imagine men, interpreting obscure divine will, and then imposing it on others.
Those that think we should be governed by "God's Laws" and live in a theocracy should entertain the idea of moving to Iran.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:54 pm to Revelator
quote:
What about nations that have ascended to great power that weren't Christian? How did they ascend to greatness in spite of their lack of Christian beliefs?
God allowed it for his greater purpose. The Old Testament is replete with stories of how God allowed Israel’s heathen enemies to prosper as punishment towards Israel.
All through the Bible there are examples of God allowing the unrighteous to rise to power and in many cases rule over His chosen people…. Nebuchadnezzar is probably the most notable example.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:54 pm to MNCTigah
quote:
Alas, the U.S. isn't a theocracy. Imagine men, interpreting obscure divine will, and then imposing it on others.
Many of the Christian Right want just that. They present themselves as righteous defenders of individual liberty, but then engage in wild conspiracy theories designed to discredit the principles this nation was founded on because their true goal is Christian theocracy.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:56 pm to Revelator
quote:
Romans says the creation itself shows the excellence of God.
That's a circular argument.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:57 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Could you perhaps be a little more vague?
It’s the opposite of vague to predict an alliance years ago that’s actually transpiring now.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:59 pm to kingbob
quote:
Alcohol isn’t denounced in the New Testament, yet a LOT of Christians preach against it.
The preaching against it is purely for religion. Some denominations have ordinances against it, even though drinking alcohol is not a sin.
Drinking alcohol to become drunk IS a sin. That part is not denomination or religion, that's GOD's Word towards alcohol.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:00 pm to Revelator
quote:
a post-Christian America, how are you enjoying it
About like the Japanese enjoy living in a non-Christian Japan, the Taiwanese enjoy living in a non-Christian Taiwan, and the Swede’s enjoy living in a post-Christian Sweden. I’m enjoying it just fine.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:03 pm to LSUSkip
quote:Ultimately, all things are done in God's plan for His own glory. That includes the good He lavishes upon us and the bad things that He allows/directs.
One of the large issues I have with Christianity is the belief that it's 'God's plan, you may not know why, but trust in him.' Sometimes things happen and there's just no way it should be part of anyone's plan. If rain falls on the just and unjust alike, why do some people have to suffer immensely compared to others. Whether you're a Christian or not, most people that aren't so self-serving or vile would agree that abortion is absolutely abhorrent. How is abortion possible, what purpose could that possibly serve? I'll just never get it.
God's plan is too vast and complicated for our minds to comprehend it. It encompasses all thoughts, words, and actions of humans as well as the actions of animals, bacteria, viruses, and nature (rain, lightning, meteors, gravitational decay, etc.) There is simply no way for us to know why everything happens exactly as it does at the time it does.
That said, God has given us basic principles and general knowledge and insight to help us think about things through a biblical mindset. Evil occurs because sin. God allows evil to occur for a greater good (love) to be shown, and for Himself to gain further glory (and God is worthy of such glory, being the greatest, most perfect being in existence).
People are sinners and God is perfectly holy. God is also just, so He must punish evil/sin. There is no person that is innocent, for all are conceived in sin (inheriting the guilt of our representative, Adam, as well as a nature that is bent towards sin and rebellion against God). When bad things happen, they happen to bad people (according to the standard of perfect righteousness), so the question shouldn't be asked, "why do bad things happen to good people?", as is often asked, because the only good person was Jesus Christ, and we know exactly why bad things happened to Him: for our good (salvation and forgiveness of sin).
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:04 pm to MNCTigah
quote:First principles require circularity.
That's a circular argument.
Prove laws of logic exist without using laws of logic. You can't. That's circular, but it isn't vicious. Likewise, if God is the source of all truth and the highest standard for knowledge, then it isn't circular to use His word to say so. If God is subject to tests outside of Himself, then those tests are higher than God.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:08 pm to MNCTigah
quote:
all of the evils
quote:
I live in a reality based on facts and evidences.
Not if you believe in evil you don't.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:08 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
They also would rather see it remain as the dominant religion because they know if it disappeared, that the vacuum would be replaced by something that will likely be destructive.
Progressive and Marxist ideology have already replaced it in American society. Many people just don't understand that they are religions. No sane or realistic person, religious or not, would want what these fanatics bring.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:09 pm to Penrod
quote:
quote:
a post-Christian America, how are you enjoying it
About like the Japanese enjoy living in a non-Christian Japan, the Taiwanese enjoy living in a non-Christian Taiwan, and the Swede’s enjoy living in a post-Christian Sweden. I’m enjoying it just fine.
Absolutely! The rapid decline of our constitutional republic is simply glorious….
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:11 pm to Revelator
quote:
It’s the opposite of vague to predict an alliance years ago that’s actually transpiring now.
Who predicted it? ("Biblical theologians" is VAGUE).
When were they predicting it? ("For years" is VAGUE).
Did they actually use those place names, or some VAGUE references to places that have been interpreted recently to be Russia, China and Iran? Perhaps they were supposed to be Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
What other combination of nations coming after Israel have never come to pass?
And as for the "last days", I've been told that biblical "days" can be millennia, so we're looking at any time between now and...
...when the Sun swells up and fills the orbit of Venus, and consequently burns the Earth to a crisp?
PSA: Maybe you're unfamiliar with my posting style, but you don't get to 38,000+ posts by ignoring trolls, you get there by engaging them. Because it looks to me that you're just trolling with the Delphi Fallacy for chum.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:11 pm to MNCTigah
We are all born lost because of the Garden of Eden. Finding and accepting Jesus Christ is the only true Way.
The murderous part was part of Old Testament. In those days of the Old Law, sin against GOD was a death sentence. Even Jews backslid enough to have GOD bring judgement upon them.
Jesus Christ has never been hateful or vindictive. Nothing is The Word backs that statement. That is merely what you have taught yourself in a means to justify not accepting Him. But his Judgement for those who reject Him is 100% real.
The Free Exercise of Religion is open in any setting. Public or Private. Remember it's Freedom OF Religion, not freedom from religion.
The murderous part was part of Old Testament. In those days of the Old Law, sin against GOD was a death sentence. Even Jews backslid enough to have GOD bring judgement upon them.
Jesus Christ has never been hateful or vindictive. Nothing is The Word backs that statement. That is merely what you have taught yourself in a means to justify not accepting Him. But his Judgement for those who reject Him is 100% real.
The Free Exercise of Religion is open in any setting. Public or Private. Remember it's Freedom OF Religion, not freedom from religion.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:13 pm to Revelator
quote:Well, everything is temporary ultimately.
Your joy will be temporary
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:17 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:
Many of the Christian Right want just that. They present themselves as righteous defenders of individual liberty, but then engage in wild conspiracy theories designed to discredit the principles this nation was founded on because their true goal is Christian theocracy.
I don't parse the Christian Right from the Christian Nationalists. One of the true threats to our Great Experiment (government SHOULD NOT be based on hierarchies according to wealth, birth, or religion).
The irony is that they can exist ONLY because of a secular Constitution, yet they are so convinced of the righteousness of their beliefs (absent evidence) that they are attempting to subvert what makes us great.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:19 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
quote:
Your joy will be temporary
Well, everything is temporary ultimately.
No worries….right?
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:28 pm to riccoar
quote:
We are all born lost because of the Garden of Eden. Finding and accepting Jesus Christ is the only true Way.
The murderous part was part of Old Testament. In those days of the Old Law, sin against GOD was a death sentence. Even Jews backslid enough to have GOD bring judgement upon them.
Jesus Christ has never been hateful or vindictive. Nothing is The Word backs that statement. That is merely what you have taught yourself in a means to justify not accepting Him. But his Judgement for those who reject Him is 100% real.
The Free Exercise of Religion is open in any setting. Public or Private. Remember it's Freedom OF Religion, not freedom from religion.
Choosing to discard the old testament is the very definition of cherry picking. Jesus himself confirms in the new testament that he will enforce his father's laws by the sword if necessary. Fundamentalists use that passage to affirm their belief in Old Testament validity.
By "public sphere" I meant government. However, I'm happy to push back on God's authoritarianism regardless of setting... lol.
Freedom from Religion or Freedom of Religion... same difference.
I digress, but there are actually good arguments that our founders meant to explicitly limit Christianity from cannibalizing other belief systems (as it's been known to do historically), hence the Exclusion Clause.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:29 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
quote:
It’s the opposite of vague to predict an alliance years ago that’s actually transpiring now.
Who predicted it? ("Biblical theologians" is VAGUE).
When were they predicting it? ("For years" is VAGUE).
Did they actually use those place names, or some VAGUE references to places that have been interpreted recently to be Russia, China and Iran? Perhaps they were supposed to be Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
What other combination of nations coming after Israel have never come to pass?
And as for the "last days", I've been told that biblical "days" can be millennia, so we're looking at any time between now and...
...when the Sun swells up and fills the orbit of Venus, and consequently burns the Earth to a crisp?
PSA: Maybe you're unfamiliar with my posting style, but you don't get to 38,000+ posts by ignoring trolls, you get there by engaging them. Because it looks to me that you're just trolling with the Delphi Fallacy for chum.
You seem reasonably intelligent….if you knew for a fact, Jesus Christ was indeed scourged, spit on, mocked and crucified, rose from the dead on the third day after being crucified, appeared to hundreds after being declared dead, and then ascended to Heaven and sits at the right hand side of the Creator would you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?
Said more succinctly, if Christianity were true would you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?
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