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Posted on 4/21/26 at 7:48 pm to SoWhat
Nope
Posted on 4/21/26 at 7:57 pm to SoWhat
No
Posted on 4/21/26 at 8:10 pm to SoWhat
quote:
Doing some research here..
Old enough to know both Vatican I and Vatican II by actually living through the distinct differences. (Spoiler Alert, I am partial to the Latin Mass and the sense of place it offered of higher power.)
Seems it comes down to a discussion from my youth about Christians and the difference between Catholics and Protestants from a wise old mentor)
Catholics follow the Church - If I sit in Mass in Europe, Africa, Merica, or anyplace else it is the same Mass.
Protestants follow the Person - If I put on my "Sunday Go To Meeting" best, each service I attend at any local worship will be different and directed by the leader at the pulpit.
Personally, I believe in Merica and the separation of church and state, Jesus speaks directly to this in the Good Book. Made a pretty solid argument of separation of church and state that our Merican forefathers adopted in fighting to create what we enjoy today.
Neither side should be spouting politics from the pulpit, especially if naming names. If ether side do this directly they should lose their flock and lose their tax exempt status. Maybe that will send a message all should follow.
Posted on 4/21/26 at 8:28 pm to SoWhat
The last few weeks my family and I have left the Catholic Church and begun attending a non-denominational church. The pastor said this week regardless if you are left or right or democrat or republican you should worship Jesus and his teachings. That sounds about right to me!
Posted on 4/21/26 at 8:45 pm to HangmanPage1
What drove you to leave if you don’t mind me asking?
Posted on 4/21/26 at 9:04 pm to L1C4
Lol. The broken pope has infatuated this board.
Posted on 4/21/26 at 9:12 pm to HangmanPage1
quote:
The last few weeks my family and I have left the Catholic Church and begun attending a non-denominational church.
Reconcile with Rome, baw
Posted on 4/21/26 at 10:17 pm to METAL
quote:We don’t feel that the church connects with us anymore. The atmosphere is dead, we get disgruntled looks from the elderly about our children, we have four, and the rigid structure of it. It felt like an obligation rather than worship.
What drove you to leave if you don’t mind me asking?
The new church is lively with songs and praise, the message is strong but relevant, there is a sense of community. Before the service the pastor walks around greets and has conversations. So many families like ours.
Posted on 4/21/26 at 10:25 pm to SoWhat
Absolutely didn’t
Posted on 4/21/26 at 10:25 pm to HangmanPage1
quote:That's great! Be fed by God's word
The last few weeks my family and I have left the Catholic Church and begun attending a non-denominational church. The pastor said this week regardless if you are left or right or democrat or republican you should worship Jesus and his teachings. That sounds about right to me!
Posted on 4/22/26 at 5:23 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
Catholics follow the Church - If I sit in Mass in Europe, Africa, Merica, or anyplace else it is the same Mass.
Protestants follow the Person - If I put on my "Sunday Go To Meeting" best, each service I attend at any local worship will be different and directed by the leader at the pulpit.
Protestants follow Jesus from the bible. Catholics follow whatever their church tells them. That is the difference.
Posted on 4/22/26 at 5:39 am to Canon951
quote:
Protestants follow Jesus from the bible. Catholics follow whatever their church tells them. That is the difference
Both follow Jesus to the best of their ability.
You need to get that log out your eye buddy.
Posted on 4/22/26 at 5:41 am to L1C4
quote:
The Pope has absolutely broken this board.
Bringing your TDS here won't fix it.
Posted on 4/22/26 at 5:55 am to HangmanPage1
Im sorry that happened to you and I get why that would be frustrating. No one should feel judged walking into church, especially with kids. That’s a real problem in some parishes, and it shouldn’t be brushed off.
But I’d just separate two things. What you’re describing is the experience of a parish and the flawed judgem natal humand that attend there… not the truth of what the Church is. Some Catholic parishes are honestly cold and rigid, I’ve experienced them myself. Others are the exact opposite, alive, welcoming, and full of families. The difference usually comes down to the local community, not the faith itself.
The bigger question is this… is worship about how it makes me feel, or about what’s actually happening? As I’m sure you know, from a Catholic view, the Mass isn’t just a gathering with good music and a strong message, it’s the Eucharist, Christ truly present. That doesn’t change based on the vibe of the room.
That said, community matters. Feeling known matters. And a parish should absolutely do better at that. A lively non-denominational church can do that really well, and there’s nothing wrong with appreciating that.
I’d just be careful not to trade something objectively real for something that feels better in the moment. You are there to worship after all, not be afraid entertained. Ideally, you find both. A parish that actually lives the faith and feels like a real community. Those do exist.
But I’d just separate two things. What you’re describing is the experience of a parish and the flawed judgem natal humand that attend there… not the truth of what the Church is. Some Catholic parishes are honestly cold and rigid, I’ve experienced them myself. Others are the exact opposite, alive, welcoming, and full of families. The difference usually comes down to the local community, not the faith itself.
The bigger question is this… is worship about how it makes me feel, or about what’s actually happening? As I’m sure you know, from a Catholic view, the Mass isn’t just a gathering with good music and a strong message, it’s the Eucharist, Christ truly present. That doesn’t change based on the vibe of the room.
That said, community matters. Feeling known matters. And a parish should absolutely do better at that. A lively non-denominational church can do that really well, and there’s nothing wrong with appreciating that.
I’d just be careful not to trade something objectively real for something that feels better in the moment. You are there to worship after all, not be afraid entertained. Ideally, you find both. A parish that actually lives the faith and feels like a real community. Those do exist.
This post was edited on 4/22/26 at 7:57 am
Posted on 4/22/26 at 5:56 am to Canon951
Except you took books out of the Bible and can’t figure out how to infallibly interpret an infallible book.
Posted on 4/22/26 at 6:23 am to METAL
How do Catholics believe they are justified before God and going to heaven when they die?
Posted on 4/22/26 at 6:44 am to Canon951
TLDR: not by “earning it,” but by grace through Jesus Christ, received in faith and lived out in a real relationship with Him.
Catholics believe you’re initially justified by God’s grace, not your works (Ephesians 2:8–9). You can’t save yourself. It starts with God. That grace is received through faith, and normally through baptism, where you’re actually brought into Christ (Romans 6:3–4).
However… Scripture also doesn’t treat salvation as a one-time checkbox. It talks about remaining, enduring, and working out your salvation (Philippians 2:12–13). So Catholics see justification as something God begins in you and you cooperate with, not something you can never walk away from.
Good works don’t earn salvation, they’re the fruit of grace and part of living faith (James 2:24). If you completely reject God through serious sin and refuse to turn back, you can lose that grace. That’s why repentance and things like confession matter.
So confidence comes from trusting Christ, not yourself. But it’s not “I said a prayer once so I’m guaranteed heaven no matter what.” It’s “I’m in Christ, I’m staying in Him, and I trust His mercy.”
At the end of the day, Catholics don’t claim certainty about their own outcome the way some Protestants do. It’s more humility than presumption… trust God fully, follow Him seriously, and leave the final judgment to Him.
Catholics believe you’re initially justified by God’s grace, not your works (Ephesians 2:8–9). You can’t save yourself. It starts with God. That grace is received through faith, and normally through baptism, where you’re actually brought into Christ (Romans 6:3–4).
However… Scripture also doesn’t treat salvation as a one-time checkbox. It talks about remaining, enduring, and working out your salvation (Philippians 2:12–13). So Catholics see justification as something God begins in you and you cooperate with, not something you can never walk away from.
Good works don’t earn salvation, they’re the fruit of grace and part of living faith (James 2:24). If you completely reject God through serious sin and refuse to turn back, you can lose that grace. That’s why repentance and things like confession matter.
So confidence comes from trusting Christ, not yourself. But it’s not “I said a prayer once so I’m guaranteed heaven no matter what.” It’s “I’m in Christ, I’m staying in Him, and I trust His mercy.”
At the end of the day, Catholics don’t claim certainty about their own outcome the way some Protestants do. It’s more humility than presumption… trust God fully, follow Him seriously, and leave the final judgment to Him.
Posted on 4/22/26 at 7:00 am to METAL
Catechism references for you…
CCC 1987:
“The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us… to communicate… the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ.”
CCC 1989:
“Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.”
CCC 1990:
“Justification… reconciles man with God… frees from the enslavement to sin.”
CCC 1991:
“With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts.”
CCC 1992:
“Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ… and is conferred in Baptism.”
CCC 1993:
“Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom.”
Then zooming out to grace itself:
CCC 1996:
“Our justification comes from the grace of God… the free and undeserved help that God gives us.”
CCC 1997:
“Grace is a participation in the life of God.”
And one more important concept Catholics lean on:
CCC 2005:
Grace gives us confidence in God, but not absolute certainty about our own salvation (this is where Catholics reject “once saved always saved”).
CCC 1987:
“The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us… to communicate… the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ.”
CCC 1989:
“Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.”
CCC 1990:
“Justification… reconciles man with God… frees from the enslavement to sin.”
CCC 1991:
“With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts.”
CCC 1992:
“Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ… and is conferred in Baptism.”
CCC 1993:
“Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom.”
Then zooming out to grace itself:
CCC 1996:
“Our justification comes from the grace of God… the free and undeserved help that God gives us.”
CCC 1997:
“Grace is a participation in the life of God.”
And one more important concept Catholics lean on:
CCC 2005:
Grace gives us confidence in God, but not absolute certainty about our own salvation (this is where Catholics reject “once saved always saved”).
Posted on 4/22/26 at 7:15 am to METAL
So without getting into a back and forth on all that you have posted I will just say this. Jesus is very clear that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. He says you must be born again. Being born is not a process. It is an event. He says that when one believes they cross over from death to life.
Paul says in ephesians that when someone hears and believes they are marked and sealed which guarantees their redemption.
Peter says we who believe in faith are shielded by God's power until the end.
Paul says in Corinthians (i think) it is God that makes us stand firm in Christ meaning it's not us "cooperating with God". He is literally carrying us across the finish line.
Paul says in Romans there is no condemnation to those in Christ.
Jesus says those who believe in him are in both His and Father's hands and no one can snatch them out.
I could sit here and write verses all day long that attest to the finality and saving power of God when someone comes to Him in faith in his son. The very idea that he gets the ball rolling but it is up to us to make sure we get it across the line by "cooperating with his grace" or keeping sacrements, etc. is antithetical to the teaching of scripture. There will be no boasting in heaven and if I somehow got there by what "I" did instead of what "He" did I would have grounds to boast.
I don't write this to argue. We are to earnestly contend for the faith and that faith is in Jesus Christ alone that gave his life for us and nothing we do can add anything to that.
God bless you friend. I do appreciate your willingness to discuss these things but we just don't see eye to eye on it.
Paul says in ephesians that when someone hears and believes they are marked and sealed which guarantees their redemption.
Peter says we who believe in faith are shielded by God's power until the end.
Paul says in Corinthians (i think) it is God that makes us stand firm in Christ meaning it's not us "cooperating with God". He is literally carrying us across the finish line.
Paul says in Romans there is no condemnation to those in Christ.
Jesus says those who believe in him are in both His and Father's hands and no one can snatch them out.
I could sit here and write verses all day long that attest to the finality and saving power of God when someone comes to Him in faith in his son. The very idea that he gets the ball rolling but it is up to us to make sure we get it across the line by "cooperating with his grace" or keeping sacrements, etc. is antithetical to the teaching of scripture. There will be no boasting in heaven and if I somehow got there by what "I" did instead of what "He" did I would have grounds to boast.
I don't write this to argue. We are to earnestly contend for the faith and that faith is in Jesus Christ alone that gave his life for us and nothing we do can add anything to that.
God bless you friend. I do appreciate your willingness to discuss these things but we just don't see eye to eye on it.
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