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Started By
Message
Five Questions the Nunes Memo Better Answer
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:12 am
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:12 am
quote:
1. When did the FBI open an investigation on Carter Page?
It’s important to understand that just because the FBI receives information (like the Steele Dossier), the Bureau cannot immediately run to a FISA court and obtain a warrant. A FISA warrant itself does not make a “case;” rather, it’s an investigative tool used in support of an existing national security case, one that normally would have been opened months, if not years, prior. In fact, FISA warrants can be approved only for what are called Full Investigations. These are the most serious class of investigations within the FBI and require an “articulable factual basis” to open: For counterintelligence cases on U.S. persons (USPERs), these cases involve facts demonstrating that the subject is in contact with and working on behalf of a foreign intelligence service. That means that, at some point prior to obtaining the FISA warrant, the FBI opened an investigation on Carter Page, obtained enough factual evidence to justify making it a Full Investigation, and would have done enough investigative activity to be able to put together a FISA application.
quote:
2. Who in the DOJ conducted the Woods Procedures on the FISA application?
Here’s where the rubber meets the road in the FISA process. Even if the FBI were inclined to put together a slipshod FISA application, they can’t sneak it into court without going through a bunch of lawyers at DOJ. I’ve outlined the entire process previously, but it’s the careful vetting process conducted by the National Security Division known as Woods Procedures – named after the lawyer who developed this in-depth review, Michael Woods – where every fact contained in the application is verified. And by every fact, I mean every fact. To use a very straightforward example, say the FISA affidavit asserts that the target took a flight on a certain day. During the Woods Procedures, the agent would have to show the NSD lawyer the underlying case file, where the agent would have previously obtained, say, the passenger flight manifest for that flight from TSA and/or entry-exit information from USCIS to corroborate the assertion made in the affidavit (and a very good NSD lawyer would have the agent include that information in the affidavit itself). The same would have to be done with human source reporting, meaning that the FBI would use information gathered through different means to corroborate a source’s assertions. Can’t corroborate it? It doesn’t go in.
quote:
3. Who was the federal judge who approved the memo?
Here’s where the Nunes conspiracy theory gets really dicey: For it to be true, it necessarily involves members of the federal judiciary. This is because when all is said and done, the FISA judge – one of 11 district court judges who sit on the FISA court in rotation (and who were appointed by Republicans and Democrats) – makes the ultimate call. The current talking points from GOP House members who have seen them memo and buy its contents suggest that Nunes has attempted to get around directly implicating a federal judge in a conspiracy by suggesting that s/he got “tricked” by the wily FBI/DOJ. In other words, the FBI and DOJ just happened to be assigned a judge who skipped breakfast and was running on such low blood sugar that they just didn’t pay attention to the details of a FISA application asking to surveil a USPER who just happened to be a former national security adviser to a current U.S. presidential campaign. Right.
quote:
4. Was the FISA warrant ever extended?
This is a critical question, because even if the FBI managed to “dress up” the dossier without any other supporting evidence, bypassed the vetting procedure, and got past a federal judge, the most they would get for all of this work is three months of surveillance. This is because when a FISA order is obtained on an USPER, the FBI must go back to the FISA court (perhaps before a different judge than the first time) within 90 days and demonstrate that the surveillance has, in fact yielded foreign intelligence substantiating the original probable cause alleging that the target is engaging in clandestine intelligence activity on behalf of a foreign power. If the FBI cannot show this evidence, the surveillance is terminated.
quote:
5. Has Robert Mueller used anything derived from the FISA in his investigation?
Anything that happened with regard to the original application for the Page FISA order would have occurred months before Mueller was even appointed as Special Counsel for the Russia investigation. Mueller, by all accounts (including my own experience having worked in the FBI under his leadership) does not tolerate nonsense. In taking over the investigation, he would have vetted all the underlying evidence that had been gathered so far, including anything gathered from FISA orders and the underlying basis for obtaining them. Let’s remember: This is someone who booted a highly seasoned counterintelligence investigator, Peter Strzok, based on text messages surfaced that could create even a perception of bias. We know that Mueller sent FBI agents to interview Carter Page: It’s hard to believe that he would have proceeded in any way on Page if he was aware that the underlying investigation to that point had been based on anything but legal, corroborated information.
LINK
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:13 am to Decatur
Keep trying to cobble this crumbling mess together TXcatur.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:13 am to Decatur
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:14 am to Decatur
Better answer or what?
Y'all gonna protest?
shite the bed?
Y'all gonna protest?
shite the bed?
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:14 am to Decatur
This memo is probably going to read like something Hannity or Alex Jones put out, man. You need to temper your expectations.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:14 am to Decatur
And if it doesn't I'm sure the OIG report will address those questions.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:15 am to bamarep
I would have said “should” but I left the article title as is.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:15 am to Decatur
Adorable!
Now, you have “demands” for what it BETTER answer!
Now, you have “demands” for what it BETTER answer!
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:16 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
Now, you have “demands” for what it BETTER answer!
If it doesn't answer those 5 things the memo is useless.
I love it.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:18 am to Navytiger74
quote:Sounds more like you need to come to grips with the gravity of the situation your political party finds itself in. A silent coup to get rid of a Democratically-elected President is just the tip of the treason iceberg.
This memo is probably going to read like something Hannity or Alex Jones put out, man. You need to temper your expectations
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:20 am to roadGator
quote:I mean, pretty much
If it doesn't answer those 5 things the memo is useless.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:20 am to roadGator
An allegation of Russian collusion is enough to launch a Special Prosecution and to initiate impeachment proceedings.
But, this memo BETTER answer very specific and far reaching questions.
Chutzpah is not just a mountain in Colorado
But, this memo BETTER answer very specific and far reaching questions.
Chutzpah is not just a mountain in Colorado
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:21 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
I would also add that the memo should include all factual allegations included in the FISA application if we are going to try to second-guess a determination made by a federal judge.
Although I do have concerns about disclosing law enforcement sensitive info regarding ongoing investigations, classified info, etc.
Although I do have concerns about disclosing law enforcement sensitive info regarding ongoing investigations, classified info, etc.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:22 am to Navytiger74
quote:Accept it came from the HIC, not Infowars you moron.
This memo is probably going to read like something Hannity or Alex Jones put out, man. You need to temper your expectations.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:23 am to Decatur
quote:you mean starting an investigation based on non-factual information? That is the fact.
I would also add that the memo should include all factual allegations included in the FISA application if we are going to try to second-guess a determination made by a federal judge.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:24 am to Decatur
I’ve not seen a single instance of “second guessing “ the fed judge.
I have seen rumor that the FBI relies upon bullshite to put the polished turd on that judge’s desk.
We will see. But, a whole lot can be of value that falls short of the demands enumerated above.
I have seen rumor that the FBI relies upon bullshite to put the polished turd on that judge’s desk.
We will see. But, a whole lot can be of value that falls short of the demands enumerated above.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:25 am to Navytiger74
quote:
This memo is probably going to read like something Hannity or Alex Jones put out, man. You need to temper your expectations.
Your descent into a partisan leftist hack over your hatred of Trump has been sad to see.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:28 am to DallasTiger11
quote:
quote:
This memo is probably going to read like something Hannity or Alex Jones put out, man. You need to temper your expectations.
quote:
Your descent into a partisan leftist hack over your hatred of Trump has been sad to see.
NavyTiger hasn't moved left. 99% of this board has just moved extremely right.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:31 am to Jbird
quote:What is this referencing?
TXcatur.
Posted on 1/30/18 at 11:32 am to Decatur
quote:
Decatur
Wouldn't your time be better spent after you leave your Dem meetings if you just forwarded your talking points to friendly media?
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