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re: DNA analysis shows that Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:11 pm to Deuces
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:11 pm to Deuces
quote:
Jews came from Isaac and the Arabs came from Ishmael, two brothers and sons of Abraham.
That's the common belief among protestant Christians but in truth no one knows. It is beyond obvious that if you go to the middle east and see an Israelite and someone from Saudi Arabia, they don't look any different.
Jews who originally came from Russia or Eastern Europe, that's another story.
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:18 pm to Narax
I’d like to speak for myself: I believe the entire Bible, new and old. Unfortunately, the Jewish nation as a whole rejected Christ. They should have known better than anyone that the Law was a tutor leading to Christ, a shadow of the things to come.
Once Christ arrived, he established Christianity, made the necessary sacrifice to redeem us from a course of sin and death, to reconciliation with God and life. What Adam lost and what we inherited (sin and death) was bought back by the ransom paid, by Jesus, God’s son.
So many scriptures, but Romans 10:4, and the entire book of Hebrews was aimed specifically at Jews to come to this realization. Many of them did, but as a whole, they rejected Jesus
Once Christ arrived, he established Christianity, made the necessary sacrifice to redeem us from a course of sin and death, to reconciliation with God and life. What Adam lost and what we inherited (sin and death) was bought back by the ransom paid, by Jesus, God’s son.
So many scriptures, but Romans 10:4, and the entire book of Hebrews was aimed specifically at Jews to come to this realization. Many of them did, but as a whole, they rejected Jesus
This post was edited on 5/26/25 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:22 pm to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
A quick, authoritative read is Elaine Pagel's "The Gnostic Gospels." FWIW, I now view my "Gnostic phase," as a serious departure into heresy. The Spirit moves in mysterious ways. Maybe that phase was necessary to get me where I am.
I’ve had this thought that the gnostic view of the world with a demiurge that controls the world and subverts us from the true path is an interesting parallel to modern conspiracy theories.
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:23 pm to cssamerican
quote:
What do scientists call Abraham? Jew, Canaanite, or Sumerian?
And how do you incorporate a stance against pork into your religion with that name?
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:32 pm to Augustus516
Followed. Snag here, but maybe this was anecdotal "evidence" of "stuff that's not in the Bible":
Of course God has no "mother" and has always been Eternal. Mary was the earthy vessel of Jesus the Man.
Bottom line: "Trinity" need not be mentioned specifically in order to note Scriptural / Divine note and acknowledgement of the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
quote:
And of course, since we are all in on the trinity, Mary, a humble servant of God, privileged to give birth to his son miraculously…is now ‘the mother of God’.
Of course God has no "mother" and has always been Eternal. Mary was the earthy vessel of Jesus the Man.
Bottom line: "Trinity" need not be mentioned specifically in order to note Scriptural / Divine note and acknowledgement of the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:34 pm to Augustus516
quote:They weren't monotheistic until around the 7th century BC during their wars with the Assyrians.
I think its interesting that Jews were monotheistic, worshipping one God. Even the first of the Ten commandments basically said that they should have no other gods before His face.
quote:Zero archeological evidence to back this up.
Why? Because they just came out of Egypt
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:34 pm to L.A.
quote:
Isn't it ironic that these two groups who hate each other so much share common ancestry
No. See the Bushmen and the Bantu.
Mankind is a violent and tribalistic breed of animal. There is inherently no one we hate more than ourselves.
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:34 pm to L.A.
quote:Correct. But just let the thread do its thing.
Canaanite religion is from Abraham? They were polytheistic, no?
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:38 pm to Grumpy Nemesis
quote:
They say this as if it's a big deal like if I gave my son. It's framed in human terms. But there's nothing human about it. He knows how it's going to turn out from the start. At least if we accept all of the other beliefs about God. It's not really much of a sacrifice to give up your son that you know you're not really giving up from the very beginning because you have all the power
That is a valid perspective but lets discuss the merits of it. My first reaction is to the sacrifice itself. Jesus, was not just any Son of God. Because he is referred to as ‘the Only Begotten’, it means that he was directly created by God, the first of God’s creations. John chapter 1 calls him the ‘Word’.
So Imagine the first intelligent creation of God, the first thing coming into existence before anything else, tortured, insulted, and dying an agonizing death…and God watched it happen. I would argue that all creation suffered a shock whether they knew it or not.
Why did it happen? Because God’s justice is far superior to ours. He told Adam and Eve that sin leads to death. He also said that their offspring (at Genesis 1:27,28 before they sinned, would fill the earth. Their offspring. So it would seem that Satan had won, because he caused them to disobey God, bring death into the world, and God’s purpose for them would not happen.
God did not go back on his word and purpose. He could not destroy Adam and Eve and start over, He is inherently good and true to himself. We imagine an Eternal, All-Powerful Being to do whatever he wants. But he is bound by his own standards set for all Creation. He cannot lie, His Justice is perfect and makes sense. In order for it all to be fulfilled, this was the only way for man to be reconciled back into a relationship with him that would result in everlasting life. The ransom sacrifice, the teaching of it was huge, it had to be paid in order for God’s original purpose to be realized. It also stands to reason that Jesus cannot be a perfect human again, since he willingly gave up that life to offset what Adam lost.
Therein lies the sacrifice.
This post was edited on 5/26/25 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:45 pm to L.A.
Arabs are descendants from Abraham’s bastard son Ishmael whom he conceived with his servant, Hagar
Jews are descendants of his legitimate son Issac who he conceived with Sarah.
Upon Issac’s birth Sarah banished Hagar and Ishmael. The descendants of both have been at war ever since
Jews are descendants of his legitimate son Issac who he conceived with Sarah.
Upon Issac’s birth Sarah banished Hagar and Ishmael. The descendants of both have been at war ever since
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:49 pm to deltaland
Basically. And apologies for hijacking the OP’s original discussion. I think any discussion on here that elicits a look at our beliefs and how we got them is worthwhile. Rather than accept what we have believed all our lives, it is nice to discuss them, within the lens of the bible.
For no other reason but Geography, most of us have our beliefs
For no other reason but Geography, most of us have our beliefs
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:50 pm to theballguy
quote:
Jews came from Isaac and the Arabs came from Ishmael, two brothers and sons of Abraham.
That's the common belief among protestant Christians but in truth no one knows
That's not just Protestants, its in the Catholic Bible, the Quran, and Torah.
The Quran also has numerous references about Abraham, the Quran repeatedly establishes Abraham's role as patriarch and mentions numerous important descendants who came through his lineage, including Isaac, Jacob and Ishmael.
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:52 pm to Augustus516
quote:
Augustus516
So you say you are an Arian?
You rejected traditional Christianity to follow a cult that's been long dead?
Or you are just Jewish and think that if you are caught out behind this fake persona it will look bad, so you claim to be part of a cult dead 1700 years.
Hmm... Which is more likely...
This post was edited on 5/26/25 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:55 pm to Narax
I don’t even know what you are talking about. Sorry
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:56 pm to L.A.
quote:
Isn't it ironic that these two groups who hate each other so much share common ancestry
No
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:56 pm to EphesianArmor
quote:
Of course God has no "mother" and has always been Eternal. Mary was the earthy vessel of Jesus the Man.
But in current orthodox Christianity, Jesus is fully God and fully man, so that would make Mary the mother of God.
This post was edited on 5/26/25 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:58 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Correct. But just let the thread do its thing.
Posted on 5/26/25 at 12:59 pm to Augustus516
quote:
I don’t even know what you are talking about. Sorry
Ah yes, you walk in, declare everyone wrong about the Bible and a non trinity God, then when getting to chose between if you are Jewish and trolling Christians or a member of the cult that believed it, you feint ignorance pretending to not know of the major group that espoused non trinitarian doctrine besides the Jewish people.
Posted on 5/26/25 at 1:00 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Jesus is fully God and fully man, so that would make Mary the mother of God.
Mary (not Divine) can only be the Mother of the "fully man" part of the human Jesus.
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