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re: Contrary to Barr's view, DoJ issues Obstruction indictment w/o underlying crime

Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:13 am to
Posted by rumproast
Member since Dec 2003
12459 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:13 am to
Link to where Barr says you can't have obstruction without an underlying crime. You brought it up...I'm not researching for you.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95589 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:13 am to
So, in your mind, Hillary trafficking in secrets on her private server, then all kind of shenanigans to cover that up are fine (because Comey couldn't determine "intent" which is the silliest thing I've ever heard from a senior law enforcement official discussing a federal status crime - GROSS MISHANDLING OF CLASSIFIED MATERIAL DOESN'T REQUIRE INTENT), but Trump thinking about firing Mueller (and Mueller found no evidence of collusion after all) is somehow obstruction?

Good to know...
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
15709 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:14 am to
Melt, cuck
Posted by Nguyener
Kame House
Member since Mar 2013
21057 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:14 am to
quote:

named as an unindicted co-conspirator


Posted by Homesick Tiger
Greenbrier, AR
Member since Nov 2006
56145 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:14 am to
quote:

Trump is named as an unindicted co-conspirator in a federal election crime.


Link it or is this just your opinion?
Posted by CamdenTiger
Member since Aug 2009
65782 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:17 am to
You are a sad person if you don’t see a difference here, and the terrorist they were investigating. Just in awe of the depression you are experiencing and what a melt if you think this is remotely relevant....
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
49515 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:17 am to
quote:

So how is ordering the top investigator into Flynn (who lied to the FBI), to "let it go", not Obstruction?


I don't know you - but based on your statements in this thread alone - especially the above quote - shows you are intellectually incapacitated or just a worthless hack.

I usually don't commit to memory of proponents of such idiocy.

g'by
Posted by AllemanWC
Bayou Corne
Member since Jan 2015
1016 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:17 am to
You, like every other weak minded Democrat, are trying to throw anything and everything at the wall to see if something will stick. NO OBSTRUCTION you idiot.

Mr. Wehelie was questioned in an investigation into criminal activity by his sons. HE LIED. He gets charged with obstruction. Trump didn’t lie. He just called the investigation a sham. Apparently it hurt your feelings.

LET IT GO!!!
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138740 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:17 am to
quote:

So Barr's own DoJ just destroy's Barr's view that you can't charge someone with Obstruction if you don't charge an underlying crime:
You are deranged.

Barr specifically stated in public Congressional testimony that an underlying crime was NOT requisite for an obstruction charge. Did you miss that?
Posted by rumproast
Member since Dec 2003
12459 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:18 am to
Here's Barr's quote:
quote:

While not determinative, the absence of … evidence [of collusion] bears upon the President’s intent with respect to obstruction.”


That is from your Washington Post article. You (and the shite Post") ignore the words "While not determinative". There. This is exactly what ticks me off. If you were CNN espousing this blatant dishonesty, half the country would take it and run. (Not saying you are being dishonest. I suspect you saw this in some partisan article and assumed it to be true...even though it isnt.) A retraction would be nice though, to stop the cycle of b.s.
This post was edited on 5/7/19 at 7:23 am
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
9138 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:18 am to
Prosecutors choose to not to pursue every possible charge all the time, that’s not some grand revelation. If you are pulled over for speeding and the officer finds cocaine in your car, it’s extremely likely that you just get charged with possession without receiving a speeding ticket. Even though you weren’t charged with speeding, speeding did occur and it justified the future revelation of cocaine possession.

That’s different from what happened with the president. He wasn’t speeding, and mueller didn’t elect to simply not prosecute a committed offense. Meuller concluded that trump did not collude (i.e. he was erroneously pulled over), and so there was no justification for the initial search to begin.

In both cases of this analogy, law enforcement did not issue a formal charge for speeding. But when the speeding actually occurred, it opened the door for a legitimate search and lead to prosecution of a different crime. When the speeding claim was proved to be erroneous, the DA loses his or her claim to any evidence collected in the following illegal search.




Long story short, being charged with an underlying crime is not what matters. That an underlying crime occurred is.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95589 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:19 am to
quote:

Trump is named as an unindicted co-conspirator in a federal election crime.


Technically, this is libel.
Posted by ZappBrannigan
Member since Jun 2015
7692 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:20 am to
quote:

Wehelie is charged with making false statements to government officials and obstruction of a federal investigation.


quote:

Making false statements (18 U.S.C. § 1001) is the common name for the United States federal process crime laid out in Section 1001 of Title 18 of the United States Code, which generally prohibits knowingly and willfully making false or fraudulent statements, or concealing information, in "any matter within the jurisdiction" of the federal government of the United States,[1] even by merely denying guilt when asked by a federal agent.[2] A number of notable people have been convicted under the section, including Martha Stewart,[3] Rod Blagojevich,[4] Michael T. Flynn,[5] Rick Gates,[6] Scooter Libby,[7] Bernard Madoff,[8] and Jeffrey Skilling.[9]

This statute is used in many contexts. Most commonly, prosecutors use this statute to reach cover-up crimes such as perjury, false declarations, and obstruction of justice and government fraud cases.[10]




Get yourself gone.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138740 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:23 am to
quote:

Link to where Barr says you can't have obstruction without an underlying crime.
In fact Barr said just the opposite.

However, he also stipulated that a POTUS working completely within the constraints of his Constitutional authority, and with coincident and quite legal explanations as to his rationale for actions, should not be charged.
Posted by The Pirate King
Pangu
Member since May 2014
68331 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:23 am to
I figured after the first 1003 times of being embarrassed, this guy wouldn’t come back. I was wrong
Posted by tigerinDC09
Washington, DC
Member since Nov 2011
4741 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:23 am to
quote:

Long story short, being charged with an underlying crime is not what matters. That an underlying crime occurred is.


Right, and SDNY has already shown that an underlying crime did occur with the Federal Election violation. So you have just made my point.

Follow this scenario, police go into a house looking for a evidence of a murder, don't find it, but find a ton of drugs. The home owner then tells everyone to lie to police about the drugs, that's still obstruction.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
115272 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:24 am to
Posted by tigerinDC09
Washington, DC
Member since Nov 2011
4741 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:25 am to
quote:


Technically, this is libel.


Find another safe space, Individual-1 directed a felony, that's a crime. He's not being prosecuted, for now, because of the OLC opinion.
Posted by rumproast
Member since Dec 2003
12459 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:25 am to
Link to where Trump was convicted of a Federal Election Violation. You are doing it again. Did you read that in the Post as well? Good God man, you are making the hole bigger!!!
Posted by More&Les
Member since Nov 2012
14684 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:26 am to
quote:

So Barr's own DoJ just destroy's Barr's view that you can't charge someone with Obstruction if you don't charge an underlying crime: 




Can you link the quote where Barr said you "cant" charge someone with Obstruction if...?

Just one link is sufficient, thanks in advance
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