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re: Conservative and Progressive Christianity - Different Faiths
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:09 am to the808bass
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:09 am to the808bass
quote:
*cough* North Point *cough*
Yeah we'll see. I haven't been there in years, but there are a lot of churches like that who opened the door in the last couple of years and are probably going to have a hard time closing it again (if they want to).
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:10 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I've never seen a small amount of progressive/woke ideology not corrupt the whole in time.
We just left a church this year that seems to be going this route. Unfortunately, once this starts it's usually time to move on.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:12 am to the808bass
I agree. Although I think a lot of the openings were provided by Christians. We played a huge role in reducing the role of the Church/Christianity in everyday life. We marginalized it to a small feature of life which IMO provided a void that, as we see, is nonetheless being filled by a church-like substitute.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:14 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
Unfortunately, once this starts it's usually time to move on.
Once it starts it will not turn back for sure... I visited a church a few weeks back where the preacher was actually preaching to a predominantly "old" crowd that if they did not "change" to attract the "younger crowd" the doors would close in 20 years...
I wanted to get up and walk out but out of respect for a friend I sat their and endured. Over lunch we discussed it and I told him they needed to run that preacher off...
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:15 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Progressive “Christians” are not really Christians.
Only conservative Catholics are Christians
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:16 am to The Maj
quote:i mean... is he incorrect?
I visited a church a few weeks back where the preacher was actually preaching to a predominantly "old" crowd that if they did not "change" to attract the "younger crowd" the doors would close in 20 years...
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:16 am to Pettifogger
I have a acquaintance/friend there on staff. It’s hard to talk to him. It’s all a minefield of politics and wokeness, with a dash of Marcionism. It happened almost overnight, as well.
Additionally, churches that have focused on becoming cross-cultural (read: more blacks) find themselves having to try to decide what to do with the BLM movement and its offshoots as they wrestle with maintaining a congregation. It becomes easier to proof text a few things into Jesus being a BLM proponent than to try to work with what you’ve got and constantly lead towards truth.
Additionally, churches that have focused on becoming cross-cultural (read: more blacks) find themselves having to try to decide what to do with the BLM movement and its offshoots as they wrestle with maintaining a congregation. It becomes easier to proof text a few things into Jesus being a BLM proponent than to try to work with what you’ve got and constantly lead towards truth.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:17 am to Pettifogger
Good point.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:18 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Then I know of some (including some churches) that are about 95% orthodox Christianity (perhaps misguided, like trying to make it culturally relevant) but 5% progressivism. This category probably concerns me the most, because I've never seen a small amount of progressive/woke ideology not corrupt the whole in time.
The ones that fascinate me are the churches who are theologically sound and decide to go seeker friendly with casual dress, music, coffee bars, etc. More often than not they start the slide, and a few years later their theology is a mess.
It's fascinating because there's zero conflict with the gospel and flip-flops, an electric guitar and a cappuccino. Zero. Yet that frequently seems to open the door to liberal theology. Only thing I can figure is the numbers grow, they like the numbers so they focus more on keeping them than doctrine.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:19 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
We just left a church this year that seems to be going this route. Unfortunately, once this starts it's usually time to move on.
We searched for a church for two years, and attended two churches for about a year each before deciding it wasn't the right place. The first was UMC, we left due to the UMC, not the church itself. It also wasn't going to be logistically viable long term for us. I would recommend the people and practices there, but I don't know how they'll go on the schism.,
The second was ACNA. It began as likely the most biblically-centered church I've ever been a part of (and I grew up SBC). And then the riots started, and the church proclaimed one day - tears in eyes - that judging those rioting over racial issues was itself a sinful act of violence against them. At first we thought it was just a passing statement, a little too inarticulate. And then the church doubled down on it, and we had to go. We debated a lot about it, whether or not we were letting politics interfere with faith. But ultimately decided that if the pastor of our church is afraid to tell the truth (riots are sinful, damaging property is sinful, harming people is sinful) we couldn't trust the leadership or engage like we should. Since then we've seen the church go bold on January 6 and other things, which while maybe understandable if the 2020 Summer stuff was discussed truthfully, can't be reconciled with how those other incidents were treated.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:20 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
i mean... is he incorrect?
Without parsing the sermon, yes, he was incorrect in his suggestion that the church group bend doctrine in order to attract a younger crowd...
He was not suggesting that they allow a guitar be played with music or more modern music be utilized in the service... He stood in the pulpit and suggested that they needed to bend their beliefs in order to conform to the world...
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:23 am to Flats
quote:
Only thing I can figure is the numbers grow, they like the numbers so they focus more on keeping them than doctrine.
That’s certainly some of it. I think some of it becomes mission creep when the church gets handed off to the next iteration of leaders. And people who can’t grow in numerical ways look to grow in other ways. In other words, when you can’t replicate the growth of your founder, grow “theologically” or in “inclusion” or wokeness or “social justice.”
It’s kind of what’s happening in education. They have zero idea how to actually affect the traditional learning of kids, so they change the goal to social/emotional learning.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:25 am to the808bass
quote:
It’s kind of what’s happening in education.
Much of the issue is happening in the seminaries... There is a woke movement that infiltrated there many years ago and many are nothing more than woke institutions....
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:25 am to Flats
quote:
It's fascinating because there's zero conflict with the gospel and flip-flops, an electric guitar and a cappuccino. Zero. Yet that frequently seems to open the door to liberal theology. Only thing I can figure is the numbers grow, they like the numbers so they focus more on keeping them than doctrine.
Yeah agreed and it's relevant to what was asked about about keeping the doors open by attracting young people. One thing I've learned (or I think is true) over the last couple of years is that the quest to make the church relevant to people will fail. The church must be relevant because it is a cultural alternative, not because it mimics the culture.
There is nothing wrong with better praise and worship or even the light shows even though I'm not a fan. But if that takes churches down a path where the focus becomes relevancy rather than the unadulterated truth, it's easy to see where the problems start. My church now is theologically conservative and our "modern" service is most church's traditional service, yet young families are pouring into the church and it's a pretty big church. The ACNA church I mentioned and other ACNA churches are booming despite weekly communion, liturgy, etc.
I think as a faith we've underestimated the desire for connection to the history of our faith and the practices. Build something authentic (ugh) and truth-centered and keep it that way, and people will come.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:26 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Conservative and Progressive Christianity - Different Faiths
This is just another "study" bought and paid for by those who make it their goal to divide us.
If you're a Christian, you're a Christian, period.
Politics come in at a distant second, and could never "shape" your faith and thus never hyphenate your Christianity.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:26 am to Snipe
quote:
Politics come in at a distant second, and could never "shape" your faith and thus never hyphenate your Christianity.
Tell me you didn’t read OP without telling me you didn’t read the OP.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:27 am to The Maj
Good point.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:28 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Build something authentic (ugh) and truth-centered and keep it that way, and people will come.
Nothing has to be built... compromising the Truth in order to be more inclusive is what has brought us to this point... the foundation and the Truth remain the same...
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:34 am to The Maj
quote:
Nothing has to be built... compromising the Truth in order to be more inclusive is what has brought us to this point... the foundation and the Truth remain the same...
I think that's my point, but I'm not sure that's what our churches are doing. Hence "build" (or reform, revive, etc.).
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:35 am to Pettifogger
The question always comes back to a Christian's view of scripture. If you believe the Bible is the inerrant and infallible, you're likely going to have vastly different beliefs about doctrine than if you don't.
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