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Message
Conservative and Progressive Christianity - Different Faiths
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:29 am
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:29 am
Via TGC - "3 Surprises from New Research on ‘Progressive’ and ‘Conservative’ Christians" LINK
I thought this was very interesting, I have not read the underlying book. Most of us have no problem calling into question Progressive Christianity as misdirected...or much worse. So in that way these are not "surprises" to any reasonable observer. You need only peruse the webpages or "what we believe" portions of progressive Christian churches to see how little the Gospel is featured.
But this is the first time I've seen an attempt at an academic/data-based assessment of the divide, and it doesn't appear to pull punches about the results. Some takeaways -
- Unsurprisingly, data shows progressive Christians are less likely to hold to orthodox Christian tenets (inerrancy of scripture, Christ as sole path to salvation). Conservative Christians are largely unwavering.
- Conservative Christians see Progressive "Christians" as closer allies than non-Christians, while Progressive Christians claim closer kinship with non-Christians than Conservative Christians. ie, conservatives view faith as the primary bond, progressives view politics as the primary bond
- Conservative Christians are more likely to depart from political orthodoxy (see evangelical debate about Trump) on faith-based grounds. Progressive Christians rarely diverge from political orthodoxy on the basis of faith.
- The evangelical aspect of Progressive Christians focuses on conversion of conservatives, not non-believers. Conservatives are lost and need saving (or condemnation), non-Christians are typically celebrated or viewed as allies.
The overarching takeaway from the underlying book is that Progressive Christians are politics-first while Conservative Christians (not without fault here) remain more likely to be faith-first. And that the disparity in belief and prioritization is so large it's not really tenable to treat them as the same faith.
I thought this was very interesting, I have not read the underlying book. Most of us have no problem calling into question Progressive Christianity as misdirected...or much worse. So in that way these are not "surprises" to any reasonable observer. You need only peruse the webpages or "what we believe" portions of progressive Christian churches to see how little the Gospel is featured.
But this is the first time I've seen an attempt at an academic/data-based assessment of the divide, and it doesn't appear to pull punches about the results. Some takeaways -
- Unsurprisingly, data shows progressive Christians are less likely to hold to orthodox Christian tenets (inerrancy of scripture, Christ as sole path to salvation). Conservative Christians are largely unwavering.
- Conservative Christians see Progressive "Christians" as closer allies than non-Christians, while Progressive Christians claim closer kinship with non-Christians than Conservative Christians. ie, conservatives view faith as the primary bond, progressives view politics as the primary bond
- Conservative Christians are more likely to depart from political orthodoxy (see evangelical debate about Trump) on faith-based grounds. Progressive Christians rarely diverge from political orthodoxy on the basis of faith.
- The evangelical aspect of Progressive Christians focuses on conversion of conservatives, not non-believers. Conservatives are lost and need saving (or condemnation), non-Christians are typically celebrated or viewed as allies.
The overarching takeaway from the underlying book is that Progressive Christians are politics-first while Conservative Christians (not without fault here) remain more likely to be faith-first. And that the disparity in belief and prioritization is so large it's not really tenable to treat them as the same faith.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:33 am to Pettifogger
This goes back pretty much to the founding of the the American Unitarian Association in 1825. Quite a few people have tried to trace "wokeness" all the way back to them, and they make some pretty salient points.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:38 am to Pettifogger
Summary- progressive Christians put politics first, while conservative Christians put the Gospel first.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:39 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Conservative Christians (not without fault here) remain more likely to be faith-first.
No fault to be found in holding a Christian world-view that is firmly grounded in the faith.
I can't know someone's heart, but I find it hard to believe someone who identifies as a "Progressive Christian" is actually Christian at all. Those are not compatible ideologies.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:41 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
I can't know someone's heart, but I find it hard to believe someone who identifies as a "Progressive Christian" is actually Christian at all. Those are not compatible ideologies.
You are exactly right. Any left winger that claims to be a Christian is lying. Progressive ideology is their religion
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:42 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Christ as sole path to salvation
If you do not believe this, then you are NOT a Christian... Go call yourself something else...
quote:
focuses on conversion of conservatives, not non-believers
Again, NOT Christians...
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:43 am to Pettifogger
Progressive “Christians” are not really Christians. They worship politics over and Diety.
They know somewhere deep down there is a God, but refuse to try to “go and sin no more” they are the lost sheep of the gospels.
It is sad because at least with non-believers there is hope for salvation through Gods mercy and them never knowing God. Progressive “Christians” on the other hand know Him but refuse Him.
They know somewhere deep down there is a God, but refuse to try to “go and sin no more” they are the lost sheep of the gospels.
It is sad because at least with non-believers there is hope for salvation through Gods mercy and them never knowing God. Progressive “Christians” on the other hand know Him but refuse Him.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:44 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
I can't know someone's heart, but I find it hard to believe someone who identifies as a "Progressive Christian" is actually Christian at all. Those are not compatible ideologies.
I know a few on the border. People who have a foot firmly planted in our woke culture but still proclaim Gospel tenets and spend a lot of time trying to line them up. I don't know that that means for their personal faith.
I know (or know of) a lot that fit this article/book well, where it's clear politics is the defining feature of their religion to the extent they're quite uncomfortable clinging to the core framework of Christianity.
Then I know of some (including some churches) that are about 95% orthodox Christianity (perhaps misguided, like trying to make it culturally relevant) but 5% progressivism. This category probably concerns me the most, because I've never seen a small amount of progressive/woke ideology not corrupt the whole in time.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:45 am to Pettifogger
Progressive "Christianity" is just the left infiltration of Christianity. As the research shows, the foundation and unwavering tenets on "progressive Christianity" is progressivism always first, Christianity sometimes and maybe second.
They're evangelists for their political orthodoxy, but pose as "Christians" when they require deception to "evangelize" on the basis of politics.
Like all progressive things, religion is simply a tool to be used then tossed away once its accomplished the desired political end.
They're evangelists for their political orthodoxy, but pose as "Christians" when they require deception to "evangelize" on the basis of politics.
Like all progressive things, religion is simply a tool to be used then tossed away once its accomplished the desired political end.
This post was edited on 11/10/21 at 8:49 am
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:46 am to Pettifogger
those progressive, non demoninational churches, usually with a pretty boy, millennial leader really creep me out.
their entire message is "you are the best and you are perfect. don't change a thing." and that's about as bad a message you can deliver.
their entire message is "you are the best and you are perfect. don't change a thing." and that's about as bad a message you can deliver.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:47 am to tiggerthetooth
Progressive Christianity is Eve with that apple once again.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:48 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
their entire message is "you are the best and you are perfect. don't change a thing." and that's about as bad a message you can deliver.
It's simply psychological emotivism. They want to take the easy parts that they like from Christianity and then remove all the parts they don't like.
It's like someone saying they want big muscles but they don't actually want to workout. Like many modern movements it's people who want to have their cake, and eat it too.
They see worship as an emotional/psychological thing and not something that is rooted in physical reality.
This post was edited on 11/10/21 at 8:50 am
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:58 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
their entire message is "you are the best and you are perfect. don't change a thing." and that's about as bad a message you can deliver.
Feel Good and Prosperity Gospels were created by men to influence the masses in order to stuff their pockets... I am not saying the folks in those churches or that ascribe to those are bad people but the people that are preaching them are evil and only out for themselves...
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:59 am to tiggerthetooth
On one hand I think it's easy (and makes sense) to characterize progressive christianity as thin, weak, etc.
But on the other, it's beaten out mainline and catholic traditions to some extent, such that progressive Christianity has melded a stronger faith (progressive ideology) onto a weaker variant (the corrupted churches).
And that is likely to mandate some self-reflection for our churches. I don't think of progressive christianity as middle ground, the adherents are very pious (just to a different religion). My hypotheses is that our attempts to portray churches as not radical vis a vis the culture over the last few decades made the churches that are radical (like progressive churches) rather attractive.
But on the other, it's beaten out mainline and catholic traditions to some extent, such that progressive Christianity has melded a stronger faith (progressive ideology) onto a weaker variant (the corrupted churches).
And that is likely to mandate some self-reflection for our churches. I don't think of progressive christianity as middle ground, the adherents are very pious (just to a different religion). My hypotheses is that our attempts to portray churches as not radical vis a vis the culture over the last few decades made the churches that are radical (like progressive churches) rather attractive.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 8:59 am to tiggerthetooth
quote:yep. every group does this to some extent, but they do it very liberally and without any shame. i went to a service at one of these churches and it was pretty shocking, at least compared to my Presbyterian (PCA) upbringing.
They want to take the easy parts that they like from Christianity and then remove all the parts they don't like.
i don't believe in anything so i don't really have a dog in this fight but i think these progressive churches are pretty dangerous.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:01 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
i don't believe in anything so i don't really have a dog in this fight but i think these progressive churches are pretty dangerous.
I think there is a growing movement of people like you who see the value in cultural Christianity even if they aren't believers. I'm not saying that's you, just that you fit the mold of people who may see the value in that vs. the society that makes a highly pluralistic-but predominately secular society the ideal.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:05 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Then I know of some (including some churches) that are about 95% orthodox Christianity (perhaps misguided, like trying to make it culturally relevant) but 5% progressivism. This category probably concerns me the most, because I've never seen a small amount of progressive/woke ideology not corrupt the whole in time.
*cough* North Point *cough*
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:06 am to Pettifogger
That's interesting.
As an anecdote, I have a progressive Christian friend who stopped coming to church only to return during the Trump years to try and persuade other members to vote Democrat. It didn't work and he stopped coming.
As an anecdote, I have a progressive Christian friend who stopped coming to church only to return during the Trump years to try and persuade other members to vote Democrat. It didn't work and he stopped coming.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:06 am to Pettifogger
quote:it is
. I'm not saying that's you,
. lots of my friends are more or less on the same page. i think it's pretty common for people in my general demographic (middle america living, college [big state school] educated, millennial).This post was edited on 11/10/21 at 9:08 am
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:08 am to Pettifogger
quote:
And that is likely to mandate some self-reflection for our churches. I don't think of progressive christianity as middle ground, the adherents are very pious (just to a different religion). My hypotheses is that our attempts to portray churches as not radical vis a vis the culture over the last few decades made the churches that are radical (like progressive churches) rather attractive.
The Hegelian dialectic destroys everything. It’s been used (and is being used) against the church very effectively with the young progressives.
“The church has been a force for good.”
“Not always.”
“What do you mean?”
“They supported slavery. That’s horrific.”
“Yes. Slavery is horrific.”
“So you agree the church has been bad.”
“I guess?”
“We must tear down the whole structure of the church and radically remake it into something new, welcoming and affirming!!”
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